AI

from Sins Forums

I am in the middle of a game against the AI on normal setting 1v1, TEC vTEC. When about to take a planet suddenly three capital ships appear from nowhere. For them to reach the planet they would have had to pass through my lines, which they did not and the nearest rival home planet was three neutral planets away?

On another planet I had a large fleet that wasted any capital ships with a small supporting fleet that threatened the planet, yet when the planet was threatened, this time with a weaker fleet and same level capital ship, The capital ship maintains its integrity for ages, because it is convenient for the AI.

My own faction was the only one with culture that was spreading rapidly, yet within seconds the rival faction suddenly has culture strong enough to start pushing my own culture back at a rate of knots.

The tighter balance in Rebellion means cruder cheating. Is it worth playing the AI any longer with such obvious cheating? This is not a strategy game, but a scissors, rock and paper game, if you like, where the scissors can cut the rock. I was playing as TEC loyalist and I suspect that, because I began to play aggressively in the middle game, the game took punitive measures ie, it cheated on a large scale to prolong the game and because it considered my behavior to be illegitimate. I wanted to destroy the rival's Novalith Canon and, though I had planetary shields in place they were not upgraded due to lack of resources, so I had to be aggressive and take the opportunity to attack its weakly defended planet with the Novalith while, at the same time, also attacking another planet that was weakly defended in the opposite direction where the rival threatened to expand. After all, the rival had eight planets to my four. If want to exploit a situation or take an opportunity I am not allowed to because of the game's tight remit. Perhaps, if I had held back and played defensively by fortifying my position and upgrading where necessary, such cheats may not have occurred. Can't Rebellion have a more liberal view of what it means to be strategic?  

12,449 views 13 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

When about to take a planet suddenly three capital ships appear from nowhere. For them to reach the planet they would have had to pass through my lines, which they did not and the nearest rival home planet was three neutral planets away?
End of quote

Do you have a replay of this??  Several people (including myself) are having this problem where enemy ships appear out of nowhere, reaching interior worlds without ever seeming to go through frontier worlds...wormholes or uncolonized planets do not seem to be the explanation...and of course replays fail to capture it...go and watch the replay, and the ships are always accounted for...

It sounds like stupid silly whining or just excuses for sucking, but I know it is happening and I'd love hard proof...

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

I am sorry but did not have replay mode on. This, or something similar, occurs often in previous editions and Rebellion has made it even cruder. There does not seem to be a true matching between easy and hard and seems to switch arbitrarily between each no matter what setting is on, particularly when playing on maps 5 or above. In addition, easy can be too easy and hard too hard making the AI single player mode almost defunct. This is now a multiplayer game. We have discussed this before, so what I will try to do is record future games and if and when this occurs ( or something similar) I will post the game in the forum. You did mention last time that your recorded game(s) did not show the cheats happening? 

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Well by default, auto record is on...you may not have manually recorded the game but a replay still likely exists...

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Thanks for your reply. The replay mode was not on, I checked. Have now switched it on. I am still playing the same game and went back to a saved game. It will not record from a saved game, of course, but I am interested in how this game plays out.

The game is defeating every attempt I make to destroy his planets moving towards his strongholds. I moved a massive fleet onto an empty planet and, lo and behold, five capital ships turn up in a second! Moving in a different direction well away from the area, then capital ships turn up instantly again, depending on the strength of my fleet. I have only four heavily defended planets against his eight more lightly defended planets, but the capital ships keep turning up. I managed to take a planet, but could not occupy it, because it left behind a mine symbol (I destroyed the mines) and so my colony frigate could not do its thing. Another cheat. I suspect, as my rival is also TEC, that he will go for the Novalith Deregulator, so I have to create an impregnable fortress of each planet and see how it plays out. Credits and resources are flowing in. The last time this happened I was forced to end the game as there was no foreseeable solution. I did eventually destroy the Canon, but then another one suddenly turned up and the same tedious process began. Even when I tried to build the Novalith myself, the rival's Canon kept neutralising my planets every few minutes despite the fact I had maxed out in defences. The game punishes you if you deviate from the way the program wants you to play. In this further sense, this is not a strategy game for the single player. What a bore.

When I start a new game I will record it, and if there are obvious cheats, I will upload it to Dropbox, if those cheats are shown on the recording. No big deal, as Rebellion is now a multiplayer game.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Didn't this game conspiracy thing come up before? And I believe we proved that it does nothing a human player couldn't do?

Anyways, to be honest, if they programmed intelligent cheats for ship spawning and/or warping, I'd actually be impressed. I wouldn't think they'd spend the time to do that.

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 1
Do you have a replay of this?? Several people (including myself) are having this problem where enemy ships appear out of nowhere, reaching interior worlds without ever seeming to go through frontier worlds
End of Seleuceia's quote

If you're talking about our game, they were often times passing through my worlds to get to Polistes. The AI is just now bypassing undefended worlds much like a human player can do.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

GoaFan77: I'm still whining about the AI cheats and, yes, we had a discussion about this a few weeks ago, but nothing you said, or the others, disproved the numerous examples I gave of AI cheating on any level of difficulty.

I don't want to repeat that discussion, but in the example above the three capital ships turned up in my gravity well instantly the moment I landed on the otherwise empty, but resourceful, planet. I am a circumspect player and, using my scout, it detected no threats on the two or three neighboring planets, so I went in. The cheating becomes cruder always when I have a bountiful supply of credits and resources and have strong fortifications. Playing the AI is not the same as the human v human game. Humans choose how they want to play, but the AI has been programmed, and is aware of every click you make, to provide an answer. If the player deviates from what the AI is programmed to react to, it will cheat and even in most cases make you lose. For example, I was playing against two other factions when one of them offered me a trade pact. i didn't accept this pact, for the simple reason I had a prolific source of credits and resources from my planets in close proximity to each other and if I had accepted the trade pact across the other side of the map, it would have reduced the efficiency and increased the time for collection of resources. Though it is the case when travelling a long distance for resources, they return with a greater bounty, this was nothing equal to what I otherwise had from my neighboring planets. It was a balancing mechanism to offer a trade pact so I would not have such a bountiful supply of resources that was much greater than the other factions. What happened when I refused the pact? First I was invaded by a massive force of pirates (I recall having 50 credits more bounty on another faction) and then shortly after I was jumped by the other two factions!  

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

I've played many a game of Sins, Trinity through the whole Rebellion Beta and a few at release, and I've never seen the AI do anything I thought was 'cheating,' only things another human player could have achieved.

That being said, lack of evidence does not prove lack of issue. I just can't back you on this.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 6
If you're talking about our game, they were often times passing through my worlds to get to Polistes. The AI is just now bypassing undefended worlds much like a human player can do.
End of GoaFan77's quote

No that was legit...I'm talking about some SP games of mine, around the time of .6 and .76 rebellion...

Quoting Exarch42, reply 8
and I've never seen the AI do anything I thought was 'cheating,' only things another human player could have achieved.
End of Exarch42's quote

Play with the dev.exe...you'll notice AI's getting techs randomly for free even if they don't have the labs or resources to research them...

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Exarch42: I have just tried to continue the ongoing game I have mentioned above (Gaius Crescent) and it has proved impossible to continue. The rival faction invaded a planet with seven capital ships on which I had a large fleet of strong forces maxed out with shield upgrades. I knew I would need more forces so, on the planet adjacent to it, which I occupied, I lined up a large fleet to send to the invaded planet in support, but the game actually stopped producing the forces. I watched as my original forces were whittled down to almost nothing when the game decided to send one of my units. When there was nothing or nearly nothing left it sent another single unit to the planet. In addition, I had the upgrade for quicker production of forces on my occupied territories, but this did not apply. Defeat was obvious. I had plentiful supply (about 350) and a very large amount of resources.

The single player has become unplayable. Rebellion could have done better than this, given the cost of the game to the American customer of between $30 and $40. 

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Seleuceia: My mistake. I did not change the save type and now have the recordings. If anyone is interested or doubts cheating takes place on a large scale on normal difficulty, I can upload one recording, if they give me the details on how to do this and where.

Replays are selective in what they show. In the first replay it showed a Capital ship's movements, but in subsequent replays it does not. In the second save, which I can upload as an example of cheating, five Capital ships are produced from nowhere in 10 secs on Orpheus. The adjacent planet, Hesperia, shows no forces and the next planet where the rival faction is situated, Semphyra, shows, at the beginning of the recording, two Capital ships and a small supporting fleet. It is only from here can the Capital ships come from. Then a further two Capital ships are produced from nowhere in addition to the five already produced to fight my forces. The two Capital ships are still present on Semphyra. In the third save the game actually stops me producing forces and rapidly reduces my resources in the process.

Some may think this is not an important issue, but it actually makes the whole single player game unplayable. 

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Upload it to something like mediafire, and give us a download link...I know this happens, it pisses me off, and I want proof...

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

Yeah, upload it. Ive not seen this yet in any game Ive played. Im curious.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

The autorecording files show nothing after the 25 May when I downloaded the Rebellion Beta on Steam. (The current game is about four days old.) I still have the relevant in-game saves which I have been watching. Does anyone know how I can record these onto file and, if so, I can upload to Gamefront. By the way, after watching the game the statistics showed a massive advantage to the AI on each category contrary to the in-game statistics after a normal save which gave me a modest superiority on most categories. I was only playing on normal setting.