Question: are there 1 or 2 items from the favor mod that you think would be good to add to vanilla demigod?

NT

butchpants ftw....

heh.

Fix the 20+ useless favor items that are already in the game before adding more of them.

This goes for regular items too.

Pretend that we will remove a useless favor item and add a useful one... then answer the question. 

There's no need to 'remove' them.  Just change their bonuses if that's how you want to balance them.  Point is, the game doesn't need more item stores, or new item names, it needs the ones it has properly balanced.

Really, the biggest problem with favor items right now is that one of them is simply way too good.  And we all know which one.  Unfortunately, the remaining playerbase is too set in its ways to stomach a change to that item, and past discussion has shown that these same people are extremely resistant to boosting any of the others to bring them up to a similar level of desirability.

Edit: Even that isn't quite true; the biggest problem is the general balance between item health, skill health, ability damage, and armor/evasion.  Item health is way too easy to come by compared to the other things.  There are other minor issues with Demigod's item balance, but that's the biggest one.

I'm not suggesting that the health vs damage ratio should be stilted more heavily toward damage - I too like being able to live long enough to see what's happening to me and to use counters (as long as there are good skill tools available to prevent running away from being a catch-all solution to every fight), but it should be obvious to any aware player that the levels of health available from the mid-game on are far, far too extreme when compared to available ability damage and armor.  Weapon damage suffers for most demigods in the mid-game period too, though it jumps up to match health again once artifacts come into play.

I don't know how to correct this other than to reduce the role that item health plays in the end-game by making expensive items, artifacts, sigils, etc give less health and less weapon damage in favor of other benefits.

So... if you were asked to pick an item from the FAVOR MOD to add to the game, you would refuse to do so then   Gotcha.  I think it would be extremely hard to argue that there would be a down side to adding 2 new favor items to the base game that were actually useful.  I get that there are other problems, etc, but as per the OP, I'm looking for 1-2 items from the favor mod that would be fun in the base game.  Or barring that, a change or 2 to blood of the fallen or making another existing item useful would be swell. 

Honestly, the easiest thing to do would be to take an existing, useless favor item, update the code to incorporate useful skills... I'm simply suggesting that the code would come from favor mod based on some of the more useful items that are reasonably tested balance wise. 

I am all for boosting the favor items that are already present to a level that is comparable to blood, bots, anklet and a few others.

heh... hate you guys.  I'm not looking to re-balance all of the favor items (though it would be useful)... looking to add 2 from favor mod or tweak a couple that exist. 

Actual, specific suggestions would be useful if anyone wants to put their mind to it.  Otherwise, I'll just submit my own suggestions to SD.  Think along the lines of what would fit in the base game and perhaps refresh the game for those of us that have been around for some time. 

These responses are very relevant to the thread's question, though: they're challenging the idea that what the game needs is two completely new favor item concepts, and saying that the game needs a full rebalance of all existing items (really, the whole item paradigm) or you'll likely just create an entirely new balance problem by adding in two powerful items from a mod that basically disregards the existence of the base game's favor items.

Sure, you can still use regular favor items in FavorMod, but why would you want to?  And you don't think that would be a problem if you just put two of them into the base game?

Most of them are easy to rebalance with little effort...

The problem with favor mod, as I see it, is it simply gives powers normally found on one demigod to everyone which kind of makes everything blah.

The mirror one is neat though, the one that teleports and then unteleports 7 seconds later... useful for gankers... but might be OP.

Correct. 

Well, that's true to some degree, but not all of the items are even remotely like that.  Take a simple example just a new item added in favor mod: the skeleton key.  This enables you to unlock locked flags.  Could have potential to be game changing, but would force players to use one of their slots for it (which didn't happen much in favor mod games - but knowing that item was available and something I could pick up is big).  Or just another item - eviction.  After being rebalanced its completely game changing and quite a bit of fun. 

Then onto some of the favor items in favor mod.  Flame tower, for example, is not op, but adds some fun variety and would certainly result in some folks picking that item over blood, etc.  Replicators is another good one and that heals towers and nearby dgs (so, to be fair, its "like" a monk in that it heals, but it repairs structures.  Then there is optical enhancement that buffs towers... the way that item is designed actually allows for a bit of strategic use (quite a bit on a high tower game).  Or architects mechanism - with that you can increase the regen on towers, etc. 

Anyway, all of those items would be nice additions to the core game.  Nothing terribly over the top (tell me you've tried eviction in the latest version before telling me its op), but would certainly spice up the game.  I'd simply remove some of the existing useless favor items and slap those in. 

I WANT MY BEJEWELED GOGGLES TO BE L33T LIKE BLOOD DAMMIT! I LOOK GOOD IN THEM!

I don't disagree with anything you say here... just that if I was voting for items to be included it would be the mirror one but maybe.

Where I say it might be OP is in the ability to "psyche" a portal rush, and then reappear to safety after someone ports in and then teleport cross lane to push the other portal. If this is actually a problem, I dunno maybe put it on shared cooldown with TPs.

Again, if you added any crazy, powerful, metagamey favor item into the pool of incredibly terrible existing favor items, it would be an absolute no brainer which everyone would pick.  It works within favormod, because 1) FavorMod is kind of crazy, and 2) FavorMod has a ton of items like that, which balance each other out to some extent.  Like I said, there are very, very good reasons that nobody picks normal favor items in FavorMod.

This is simply not viable until the existing favor items ALL have good balance, and the artifact and expensive item balance is adjusted as well, so those things aren't universally better than any favor item that doesn't have some kind of powerful meta-effect that scales well into the game (something even Blood can barely claim).

Again, that obviously wouldn't be the goal.  Take something like the flame tower favor item.  Add that to the base game.  Everyone will toy around with it and use it quite often.  But after that initial surge of everyone trying out the item, folks will still want to pick blood, etc.  And then certain builds or players might then choose the tower over the other items.  IT, imo, is a decent example of an item that could easily fit in the base game instead of one of the so so items. 

Well... that and there is no point in running favor mod if you aren't going to try 1 of the 20+ items, eh? 

Anyway, its still a simple premise.  Whatever would be added from favor to the base game would have to 1) be reasonably balanced in line with the other commonly used favor items and 2) be a viable alternative to the more commonly used favor items and 3) not be an item that everyone picked 100% of the time.

And I still think 1 or 2 items from favor mod would easily fit this criteria and add some decent content to the base game.  Realistically speaking, if we did get another patch, I really don't think they will bat an eye about updating the code on 2 favor items that are poo. 

sooo... what are some possible candidates?  Anyone think the skeleton key would be useful enough to add as a consumable to counter locks? Or is that not a big enough value add?  What about adding something simple to googles - like making it castable as a capture lock (the little brother to the amulet of TP).  Googles like that would have decent symmetry with reg anyway.  Not sure if that would be good enough to get it into the regular rotation, though. 

The helm of fortune is another good example, I'd think, for inclusion in the base game. 

Last time I checked that was still imba but I haven't played favor mod in a while.

I would say you are not allowed to mess with the lock game mechanics.

If you don't think goggles belong in the ranged attack niche, you could always make them view enemy demigods like you do your own teammates. (Health, mana, items etc...)

please mess with lock mechanics they are stale.

Any item that does something really cool that is still useful later in the game is going to be a defacto choice over any existing items other than Blood.  Instead of a choice between Blood, Blood, Blood, or maybe Cloak of Night, it will be a choice between Blood and the new items.  How does this improve the game anywhere near as much as making any of the current items a valid choice depending on build and map?

If you still aren't getting this, imagine if CoN or AoT weren't crappy (say, 20-25 range on CoN, or a snap-back feature like FavorMod's Mirror item, and better-than-teleport-scroll stats for AoT) - 90% of builds will still choose Blood, but a few might actually take the early-game health hit and choose one of the other two items, because they remain or become fairly effective over the course of the game, while Blood's comparative effectiveness slightly decreases, just less than any other normal favor items.  This is not 'good balance'; at best it's slightly less terrible balance, assuming the 'new' items aren't anywhere near as powerful as they are in FavorMod.

Edit: Symbol of Purity is another example of this, and is already one of the few worthwhile items due to the fact that it gives ~1/3 the effect of Blood on top of an active ability that scales well or even improves throughout the game.  SoP's effect is at least fairly well-balanced with respect to Blood, as its ability is only useful against debuff-heavy Demigods, and mostly useless against DA, Fire TB, Oculus, etc.

Adding free locks to a favor item won't make it less stale, if anything it'll just mean non-stop locks throughout the game from anyone who doesn't take Blood.  That sounds really annoying.

This is not a bad idea, and should be achievable.  This alone wouldn't make it worth picking over Blood, but it's a start.

I am more interested in the lock-removal and other weird lock items that Exxcentric made in his mod.

Ah.  That could work, as long as the item doesn't have much else in the way of bonuses.  Could have a pretty nice discouraging effect on lock overuse.

They are all just consumables not favor items.