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Poll: Novalith vs Kostura vs Deliverance Engine

Poll: Novalith vs Kostura vs Deliverance Engine

What is your favorite ultimate Tactical structure?

I have been playing sins for a while playing with all races and it occured to me which is the best tactical structure? The Novalith Cannon which nukes people, the Kostura Cannon which stuns people's bases, or the Deliverance Engine which remotely places culture. Decide which is your favorite and post it here!
101,396 views 53 replies
Reply #26 Top
Of course not but trying to stun a moving target from a star-system away is... unreliable at best.Under ideal circumstances, sure. It 'could' be useful (whether or not it's more useful than its weight in credits/resources applied to more ships in your fleet is certainly debatable) but by and large, the other two superweapons are far more reliable when it comes to having their intended effect (with very little micromanagement, might I add). If a Novalith fires, a planet somewhere is going to burn. If a DE fires, your enemy will have to contend with the culture effects. When the Kostura fires, you might get lucky and stun something at just the right time but more often than not, you're just going to get a small light show and a meager damage payoff to a few structures.
End of quote

I totally agree. Its by far the worst one of the 3 "superweapons". If you are so far into the game that you can build the kostura, then the tactic slots are better spent on stabilizers instead for RA anyways.
Reply #27 Top

I'd have to go with the Kostura. It creates a phase stabilizer node at the enemy planet, allowing you to move in with your fleet for the kill and buys you more time to set up a starbase at the enemy planet.

Reply #28 Top

For me, its a hard match between the novalith and the kostura.  The novalith can eliminate planets which can devastate them if you target their home world.  On the other hand, kosturas allow you to go invade said world...

 

I'm stuck...

Reply #29 Top

I have to agree with Volt_Cruelerz. Now if there was a superweapon which could do both (*wink wink*, search the forum for the 'Legions Mod'), that would be awesome.

Reply #30 Top

Quoting saracen16, reply 2
I'd have to go with the Kostura. It creates a phase stabilizer node at the enemy planet, allowing you to move in with your fleet for the kill and buys you more time to set up a starbase at the enemy planet.
End of saracen16's quote

thank you for finally saying it.  everyone up to now has only been interested in its damage effects.  the phase space node and the stun allow you to bring in fleets from multiple facto planets and wipe out defenders.  nail a planet with a large fleet in orbit and you can wipe out the fleet, defenses, planet, everything before the enemy has the ability to fully respond.

Reply #31 Top

DauntlessAnsible,

I agree with both your's and saracen16's assessment of the Kostura's capabilities. Also, a little bit of a hardcore Ender's Game series fan? (it's okay, I think Orson Scott Card wrote an awesome winner with that series)

Reply #32 Top

Kostura is the best one imo in Entrenchment. The fleet stun does wonders in turning the tide of a battle and does decent damage (if the ships have shields above 0, seems to do less). The temporary phase stabilizer node allows you to go to any enemy planet you want directly. With a Maruader, you can then jump in or jump out ships in your enemy lesser guarded backworlds. You can also now contruct a Starbase to whichever planet you jumped to or a surrounding planet. Admittedly, the damage done by these aren't that great (though it works wonders on the pirates), but the utility (phase node) from just one is spectacular. Having enough of these will completely wipeout structures and ships on a planet.

The Deliverance Engine is also great for giving you the edge in battle as it gives you the culture bonus instead of your opponent. Also handy for scouting (with correct research) and colonizing a planet that you are waiting for the culture to go down on. Again, having just one of these does well. En masse, they can help you overthrow planets.

The Novalith is the least useful. Sure, it blows up planets and reduces max population on that planet. However, do you really need to reduce max pop when the planet is gone? That bonus seems to be rarely useful. Furthermore, the Novalith is only deadly if you have several of them. Having just one only serves to annoy your opponent or speed up planet bombing...which the Marza does quite well. It can also become nearly useless if the enemy builds a Starbase with auxiliary govt upgrade on that planet you are bombing. Which, I believe it costs less resources to build a Starbase with the upgrade than to build a Novalith. If you have the resources to build multiple Novaliths anyways, you are either already winning or have no fleet and will ultimately lose.

Of course, if we are talking about Vanilla Sins, then it would be Novalith, Kotsura, Deliverance Engine.

Reply #33 Top

Each of them goes well with the race they are with.Kostura is really fantastic against fronline planets because they are:A)close B ) sometimes less protected.Happy cannon and Novalith are both fantastic for turtling and thats a good way to go a lot of the time with those.Theres nothing i can say that hasnt been already said.They are all good in specific situations.I dont have a favorite.

Reply #34 Top

quite a different change of attiude for June 25, 2008 and July 6, 2009 (time stamps from replies 26, 27). A year ago the Novalith was king and Kostura was crap. Now it has flipped slightly (the Novalith is still useful). Thanks devs for listening.

Reply #35 Top

IMO:

Deliverance > Kostura > Novalith

 

Also notice the bumpage where the year changes from 2008 to 2009; this is a VERY old thread, so the first page is all Vanilla.

Reply #36 Top

:rofl:   i didnt even notice the thread age.  bah.

Reply #37 Top

Kotsura + scouts = no superweapons for the other side... theoretically. And it has the added bonus of no repair bays for the other side. Bonus points if the battle is so close that you can't possibly hit after they leave...

But deliverance is best for me. Get a buddy with a Kotsura and fire 'em off at the same time... culture bomb and no enemy culture to counter...

Too bad there isn't a "Salvo" ability for the Nova and Kotsura, and a "stagger" ability for the Kotsura and Deliverance... or at least a timer saying "Time to ability wear off" and "Time to impact from location"

Reply #38 Top

Quoting Sakhari, reply 10
When did the Advent start getting a weapons bonus for culture? Last I checked, their culture buff was only an increase in mitigation.

Personally, I much prefer using the Deliverance engine in protracted multi-star games (which is generally the only time I see superweapons used at all unless I'm just screwing with an AI). It hinders the opponent's economy, gives you a good look at their empire (provided you have the appropriate research), supports your fleet, removes culture buffs from theirs, gradually turns planets, and makes it harder for the enemy to take back planets that have been turned. Or, if nothing else, it makes your opponent invest heavily in culture to counter it.

If the goal is simply to win the game as fast and as efficiently as possible with the lowest amount of micromanagement, then yeah. Despite the above benefits, the Novalith is still, most likely, the better choice.

The Kostura sounds good on paper but in my experience, it's just too awkward to be useful. Timing fleet strikes with the stun effect never seems to work out how I'd like, especially in multi-star maps when the shots take an eternity to connect, and the damage never seems to stack properly on multiple shots so using it to harm orbitals isn't terribly effective either. I've tried it a few times and I've been disappointed with the results on every occasion.

End of Sakhari's quote

The DE is the cultural equivalent of a planet-buster missile (or the Terror Star in GalCiv 2 Ultimate), with the additional advantage of it only killing the enemy's *culture*, not the people.  If you have a multi-sided game (either online or offline skirmish), being able to use the DE on the most troublesome side's planets frees up resources to tackle the remaining (if not as troublesome) opposition.  However, the Advent have other advantages in smaller maps (where the Deliverance Engine, or other superweapons don't come into play), such as Galactic Rift (inactive pirates).

The Deliverance Engine has another major advantage over the other superweapons; because it's a culture-buster, you gain all the target planet's improvements (and resources) without having to chew up time/metal/crystals/additional cash on a traditional beat-down invasion/re-colonization.  (Let's face facts, a traditional invasion chews up resources that can best be used in moving further up the tech or fleet tree, and *all* the superweapons, including the DE, are well up near the end of each race's tree; if you're playing as the Advent and you've reached the Deliverance Engine and *haven't* wiped out all the opposition yet, you're in no position to waste aqdditional resources, or time, continuing down the traditional route to victory.)

 

Reply #39 Top

The damage output bonus a Deliverance Signal will provide is 15%, which is no laughing matter when you have an Advent fleet following the shot.

Reply #40 Top

Yay for necro!

The DE is the best, build 2 and stagger shots on a planet and your enemy won't be able to keep it.

The kostura is the most tactically useful with the phase stabilizer extra and because it stuns defenses

The novalith is the easiset to use and its a nuisance

Reply #41 Top

My vote is on the Kostura.

The novalith can be stopped by SBs

The Deliverance Engine is meh

The Kostura STUNS ships, deals nasty damage and stabilizes phase space, and doesnt hurt your own ships.

Reply #42 Top

Kostura is the best.  With a few of these you can destroy a fleet.  It also stuns buildings and units and allows ships to jump straight to that grav well.

As has been mentioned, novalith can be stopped by SB.  It does however still damage the planet's population so i guess the hw income would take a hit with it.

Deliverance engine is crap.  It is a 25 percent bonus to weapons and not 15 percent.  Rarely do you ever see one built in multiplayer.  It takes forever to flip a world with culture no matter how many are fired at it.  Instant 25 percent bonus and increased shield mitigation is nice but it never gets used.  If it had an allegiance hit instantly as well then maybe it would be worth something

Reply #43 Top

mind you whenever a planet gets hit with a DE its allegiance drops by %10.  I  think that's pretty good, as it produces lower income, and if if you hit planets that are far away from the enemy home planets, two hits will bring it down, and planets that have low allegiance will automatically start to drop.

Reply #44 Top

The things about dropping allegiance and losing planets/population to the DE and Nova is that, by the time those weapons show up in a game, the majority of players incomes comes from trade and not taxes, so unless your targeting the enemy HW with Novas or DE, the loss of income at any other target is negligible. The Kostura is the only superweapon that can really put the hurt on someones economy by destroying the multitudes of trade structures around any planet.

Reply #45 Top

Kostura is the only late game weapon that helps you win. Novalith is laughable past a certain phase, because your opponent can starbase everything. For price of 1 Novalith I can get 2 bases with loyalty upgrade. I guess best use of it would be just build one and scare your opponent into starbasing all his planets, while you pour your money into a fleet.

Now if I get 10 Kosturas I can pretty much slaughter any fleet.

Reply #46 Top

Gimme a Kostura and a phase stabilizer and I can send an attack fleet anywhere I damned well please, bypassing most of my opponent's defenses. Given that I'm then able to send such an attack every 5 minutes or so (and building a decent attack fleet can take longer) I can basically launch an attack anywhere I want as fast as I can put them together. With multiple Kosturas, I gain complete freedom of movement across my opponent's territory, especially if I have Marauders in the fleet... I believe they have an ability that lets them stabilize phase space? It's been a while since I've played Vasari.

Quite frankly, the damage and disorientation is secondary to the fact that it renders your opponent's chokepoints utterly moot. If their fleets are firefighting all over their empire trying to stop me from ripping their infrastructure apart, they aren't attacking me, and they aren't winning. Kostura wins hands down.

If I played Vasari more often I'd be all over it. ;)

Reply #47 Top

yeah, Marauders have a Phase Stabilizing ability. Orkulus SBs can also be upgraded to have the ability as well.

Reply #48 Top

it's not like the kostura takes out structures in one hit, it takes multiple hits, and you are definately not going to bring down a fully upgraded starbase with two or three cannon shots, it's gonna  take ALOT more than that.

Reply #49 Top

bring down a fully upgraded starbase with two or three cannon shots, it's gonna take ALOT more than that.
End of quote

The current amount of shots required to bring down an sb is unknown, because the kostura doesnt do a whole lot of damage to them, but what you CAN do is eliminate any support structures and fleet around the SB, making it a piece of cake to destroy with bombers or an Orky. Can't do that with any of the other superweapons.

Reply #50 Top

All 3 are actuly very ineteresting. I can also say that under my balance mod these tools will gain in importance. For advent the deliverance engine will give a very ineteresting boost to assaulting heavyly defended TEC planets that have culture, will also help againt other races. And the Kotsure will greatly help Vasari in Managing enemy SC booth defensively and offensively. Actuly the Novalith will kinda become the weakest one of the pack.