Jaga Telesin Jaga Telesin

[MOD/MAPS] "TrueSpace" for Sins

▼

[MOD/MAPS] "TrueSpace" for Sins

Realistic Stars and Galaxies are finally available

from Sins Forums
TrueSpace for Sins, is a new method of map generation for both solo and multiplayer games. It is both a set of randomly-generated maps to use for games, and a standardized method by which people can create their own TrueSpace galaxies with little effort.

TrueSpace creates much more realistic galaxies than the default method that came with the game, and can be used with Sins Plus by Uzii for some pretty varied and amazing results. It uses a very specific and logical method to generate Star systems, what can be found in them (and where), and how the galaxy is laid out for players.

One of the fundamentals to TrueSpace is that each player starts in their own star system (much like Humans started in our own), and branch out into the galaxy to wage war and meet other races via interstellar travel.

Features that have been built into TrueSpace are:
  • Planetary bodies found where you would expect them to be: Volcanic are close to the sun, Desert just beyond volcanic, Terran and other habitables are in the green belt, Ice are near the outer edges of the system, etc. TrueSpace uses a real "rings" system with the random generator for placing all planets.
  • Realistic numbers of planets and planetary types in each system. You won't ever find a system with 100 planets, or one with 10 total of which five are Terran. Most systems have between 9 and 16 planets/asteroids/other.
  • Balanced numbers of rare or valuable planets: even with Sins Plus, you only have a 50% chance of finding a Gas Giant (for example) in your system, and even then you would only see one.
  • All player (and AI) starting Home planets are also in the system's green belt (middle ranges), not on the outside edges.
  • The "starter planet" near the player's home Terran planet has been removed, due to disrupting the natural layout of a solar system. Each player (or AI) has a nearby asteroid to begin with, and has to explore or fight for the rest.
  • All inhabited star systems are defensible, due to a low number of possible jumps from each star (1-3) on average.
  • Dead star systems, with remnants of asteroids, asteroid belts, and other assorted junk. These can be total junkyards with hardly any metal, or be bountiful resources to fight over.
  • Chaotic "portal" star systems, with plentiful plasma storms, magnetic clouds, and random Wormholes. The wormholes lead only to other portal systems, ensuring a tactical advantage to those who use them, not a surprise attack into another player's system.
  • A slightly boosted level of both planetary bonuses (from 40% to 60%), and artifacts (from 15% to 25%).
  • Pirates have been moved to where you would expect to find them: on the outskirts of each system. There is also a version of the maps with pirates disabled.
  • Different versions of TrueSpace maps can have different planet densities to satisfy player tastes. There are low-density systems, normal-density systems, and high-density systems. Expect to find more or less planets in each type accordingly.
  • TrueSpace maps can be used with both Single Player and Multiplayer games.
  • Compatibility with Sins Plus from -Uzii- means more planetary types and bonuses throughout the galaxy.
  • Works with any mod. If the mod adds more planetary types, they will have to be added to the galaxy (map) file by hand, unless the types are from Sins Plus.
I've been working with feedback from Uzii on the system/maps, and will be relasing the initial package with both vanilla Sins and Sins Plus versions. Questions/comments/feedback are welcome. I'll try to keep this post updated with new information as the project progresses. If people would like screenshots of some TrueSpace galaxies, star systems, etc I would be glad to post them, just drop a comment requesting it.

As a sidenote - I took the liberty of actually playing one of my early TrueSpace maps that had 5 other AI opponents set on Fast gameplay mode. It was a very enlightening experience that led to some tweaks and balances I wouldn't otherwise have considered. And it was a very challenging game which lasted longer than I would have expected due to the difficulty level involved with TrueSpace and the inherent logistics of multiple star systems.

I haven't set an ETA yet on the map files, or on a documented system of how to build your own TrueSpace galaxies, but I would guesstimate within a week or so I can have it ready for public use.


modding
42,217 views 66 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top
Will this mod work in conjunction with most other mods?
Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top
Outstanding!

I will definitely be watching this and, if you allow, use it in my personal merge of mods.

My guess is it will work with other mods that don't modify the galaxy file themselves?

On the note of gas giants: Do you make a distinction between the 'Sins Plus Enabled' version and the normal version?
Offworld Trading Company
Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top
I hope that IC change the ingame version to a simlar one like yours. Or just use yours. :D
Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top
Sins originally tried realistic solar system layouts. But as you can imagine, that creates some problems because there's no longer much individuality and uniqueness to maps because everything is always in the same place (volcanics near the sun, rocks farther away, etc) which isn't quite the best thing for Multiplayer balance and variety.

This is a good mod effort because I know lots of people like few players per system but lots of systems and such, so I'm not bashing it, I just wanted to set the record straight about why Sins is the way it is, and that realistic layouts have been tried :)
Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top
Yes, and that's the beauty of it. Mods like this mean that more players can get more enjoyment out of the game because they can tailor it easily to their own preferences. :D
Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top
Very Interesting;

I can see some issues with strategic bottlenecking with so few phase lanes per planet per system. I think my concern would be massing hug fleets at the star is it seems to be the primary choke point.

Also since each star system essentially has multiple "dead ends" or branches if you will, comming off the star, it would reason to me that players would specifically tailor their empire to place (or spam) non tactical structures at the edges of the system (the dead end of the branch) and focus (or spam) an obscene amount of tactical structures at the inner planets.

Every system would be like a fortress, There wouldn't much strategy other than massing a hug fleet and ramming it up against the central defesne. No sneak attacks, diversions, or multi-pronged attacks, etc.

Irregardless, its a very interesting take on the universe, and I really do look forward to giving it a run.

PS, Rhedd, Jaga, it is also very nice to see some fellow TES members of old around.
Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top
Will this mod work in conjunction with most other mods?

Yep! Since this isn't truly a mod (more a set of maps with a standardized method behind them), they should work with virtually any mod, and those that encorporate Sins Plus planets. Initially I am doing two versions of all maps: vanilla ones for non-SinsPlus, and SinsPlus versions.


Outstanding!I will definitely be watching this and, if you allow, use it in my personal merge of mods.My guess is it will work with other mods that don't modify the galaxy file themselves?On the note of gas giants: Do you make a distinction between the 'Sins Plus Enabled' version and the normal version?

Even if they do modify the galaxy file it should still work, as it keys off of the standardized planet type names (not the lists). And yes, there is a major difference between the vanilla and SinsPlus versions. If you try to use the Sins Plus without the mod enabled you get an instant crash.


Sins originally tried realistic solar system layouts. But as you can imagine, that creates some problems because there's no longer much individuality and uniqueness to maps because everything is always in the same place (volcanics near the sun, rocks farther away, etc) which isn't quite the best thing for Multiplayer balance and variety.This is a good mod effort because I know lots of people like few players per system but lots of systems and such, so I'm not bashing it, I just wanted to set the record straight about why Sins is the way it is, and that realistic layouts have been tried

Everything I've seen so far indicates that normal sized solar systems with vanilla planetary bodies would definitely create plain "cookie cutter" systems, so in that point you are absolutely right. However with the addition of Sins Plus planets, with some of the randomizer tweaks I've made, and with slightly larger solar systems, it gets MUCH more interesting. I fully plan on promoting Sins Plus as the mod to use (or merge) for gaming with Sins and TrueSpace maps, simply because of the level of variety and immersion it gives.


Yes, and that's the beauty of it. Mods like this mean that more players can get more enjoyment out of the game because they can tailor it easily to their own preferences.

True there. People are free to take the maps I make and change them to their own tastes, just not to alter mine and release them as their own. :) Eventually I will distribute a "TrueSpace How-to" type document that explains how the systems are constructed, why, how to change them, etc.


Very Interesting;I can see some issues with strategic bottlenecking with so few phase lanes per planet per system. I think my concern would be massing hug fleets at the star is it seems to be the primary choke point. Also since each star system essentially has multiple "dead ends" or branches if you will, comming off the star, it would reason to me that players would specifically tailor their empire to place (or spam) non tactical structures at the edges of the system (the dead end of the branch) and focus (or spam) an obscene amount of tactical structures at the inner planets. Every system would be like a fortress, There wouldn't much strategy other than massing a hug fleet and ramming it up against the central defesne. No sneak attacks, diversions, or multi-pronged attacks, etc.Irregardless, its a very interesting take on the universe, and I really do look forward to giving it a run.PS, Rhedd, Jaga, it is also very nice to see some fellow TES members of old around.

Well you and I think alike - originally I thought the same thing about defending a solar system. Just drop your defenders in the solar gravity well and you have a single point of defense. But then I actually played a game with TrueSpace, and completely changed my way of thinking. That's how I arrived at "less phase lanes connecting to the star is good", because you end up defending the planets around the Star, not the star itself. Attackers can simply jump into your star's well, and immediately jump to an adjacent planet with minimal damage. Some mods correct for this, making your star defensible, but usually its difficult to defend.

And yes, it is one thing to capture and control your own system, and totally another to both hold yours and capture systems belonging to others, all the while trying to keep what you take. That to me is true strategy, and the essence of interstellar war.

As for sneak attacks, multi-pronged attacks, and the like... they will be very valuable due to the extra Dead and Portal systems I added into TrueSpace. You can think of those systems as staging points, places to hide fleets, mini resource caches, etc. Since you enter in at someone's star, you can jump there from any other star, making the use of any solar system valuable.

There are a couple people that are going to be testing out some multiplayer maps this week, and I'm very excited to see what they have to say about them.


Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top
Hath thee ever heard of Mustafar from star wars?

well in case you havnt that planet is 30% surface lava. and its between two gas giants no where near its star.

im not sure if you could incorporate that, but if you wanted to try that would also add some detail to the solar system.

(It is a volcanic planet because the two gas giants gravity wells rock the planets insides back and forth constantly, both trying to capture it as a moon.)
Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top
Hath thee ever heard of Mustafar from star wars?well in case you havnt that planet is 30% surface lava. and its between two gas giants no where near its star. im not sure if you could incorporate that, but if you wanted to try that would also add some detail to the solar system.(It is a volcanic planet because the two gas giants gravity wells rock the planets insides back and forth constantly, both trying to capture it as a moon.)


Actually in my talks with Uzii I already proposed a "molten" planet type for inner solar distances. Seeing as we are unable to control how close certain planets are to others with the random galaxy generator, that's where it would end up in TrueSpace. But we'll see what Uzii is able to cook up and if it makes it in.

There is a remote possibility of including it in a very thin and distinct ring near a gas giant, but that would require the existence of the giant to begin with, so it would be hard to make it a random occurrence.
Reply #35 from Sins Forums Top
I can confirm that there won't be a molten planet in the next update unfortunately. Maybe in a future one, but not 1.2, sorry boys and girls.
Reply #36 from Sins Forums Top
yeah i thought this might happen. it seems rather unlikely that you would be able to script like that without the proper tools.
Reply #37 from Sins Forums Top
Hath thee ever heard of Mustafar from star wars?
That should be, "Hast thou".

Thought you'd like to know. ^_^

Reply #39 from Sins Forums Top
Will you have different links for the vanilla Sins and the Sins Plus mod?
Reply #40 from Sins Forums Top
Will you have different links for the vanilla Sins and the Sins Plus mod?


Nope, distributed in the same package, different folders. You just copy whichever maps you have mods for, and that have the options you want to play with.
Reply #41 from Sins Forums Top
PPS: I did a bit of TES modding, myself. Since it was for Morrowind and not Oblivion, I bet nobody remembers me, though. ^_^


Rhedd's Heads? :D They were the best!

Oblivion was crap, at any rate.
Reply #42 from Sins Forums Top
Features that have been built into TrueSpace are:Planetary bodies found where you would expect them to be: Volcanic are close to the sun,
Volcanic planets arent always found close to their stars. Even tho this isnt a planet take our solar system for example. The moon Io is a moon of Jupiter and a giant ball of molten Lava. Nowere near our star.

Desert just beyond volcanic, Terran and other habitables are in the green belt, Ice are near the outer edges of the system, etc.
Again Desert planets dont need to be close to their stars. Take Mars which I would classify as a desert planet but its farther from our star then we are.

Ice should be farther out. Uzis Forest, and ocean planets should be found in the green zone, and Urban and Barren planets could be anywhere.



Reply #43 from Sins Forums Top
Rhedd's Heads? They were the best!
That's me! Thank you.

(Some weener stole my name on this forum, so I had to add the _V. Go figure.)
Reply #44 from Sins Forums Top
Are you chaning the GalaxyScenarioDef file in GameInfo? I was thinking of changing the planetTypes in the file, coz the layout really really sucks. I've made changes to my mod already and the galaxy is way much better already.

Was wondering if you know know what happens when the galaxy generator doesn't find a planetType in the GalaxyScenarioDef file as made by the map/galaxy file? Will the game minidump?

Maybe I can make changes for you to the planetTypes, eg. RandomCloseSun would be volcanic/barren and Random far from sun could be ice/ocean, etc. What you think?
Reply #45 from Sins Forums Top
Anybody home? I really hope this mod isn't dead. Let me know if you need some help. (says the man with no modding skills)
Reply #49 from Sins Forums Top
Sounds like a really interesting mod -- I'd love to check it out when it's released! ;-)