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Alternative Ship Models

Alternative Ship Models

FalShia and Staticstarter Mod Project- suggestions are welcome.

Instead of spending months and months working on a TC or IP mod for Sins, can someone please, o please, do new models for existing units!? 

Redesigns for:

Garda Flak
Kodiak Heavy
Aegis Drone Ship

and a few others.  Some of the ship models are completely non-sensical, even for alien races.  I'm capable of producing concept artwork for anyone who is interested in doing the modeling.  This game doesn't need Star Trek, or Star Wars, of Babylon 5 mods.  What is need is good ship models- plain and simple.  Most of them are good (All the cap ships are great in my opinion)- just a few are so disappointing that I'm compelled to post this.

Private Message me if you are interested.

75,974 views 172 replies
Reply #151 Top



As a soon to be engineer in the defence bussines i can assure you that aesthetics comes to the bottom of the list when it comes to designing weapon systems, the so called "psychological impact" does not exist since trained soldiers don't fear weapon systems, they fear from the effectiveness of said weapon system and from the enemy (if the enemy is good enough).
End of quote


Just for the record I am a military historian working on my doctorate at Kings College. ;)

(^ true, but just a joke. Please don't think I'm being pretentious. I like history just so I can tell stories, after all.)

What if the perceivedeffectiveness of a weapon system can be altered?

Take, for example, the Vikings. They were not really the best with war. They were good fighters, but raiders primarily and easily annihilated by organised armies. Yet they were effective, amazingly so; why? Certainly it has to do in large part with their ability to hit fast enough that the defending locals could not mount an effective resistance, but I believe a great deal of their effectiveness was born of their frightening reputation. Tales of men turning into wolves and ravaging the enemy, stories of brutality and conquest and terror. These things helped make these people a fighting force to be reckoned with, even though their actual ability was less than advertised.

Look, too, at pirates of the 17th-19th centuries. These guys didn't want to fire on their prizes, of course not, but rather wanted them to surrender without a fight. How did they do this? Fear. Reputation. Blackbeard hiding slow-burning match in his beard to seem more like a daemon than a man.

Certainly the immediate look, the immediate aesthetic, of a weapon or army or any military asset is not necessarily carrying a psychological impact. Even if it does it still risks the loss of this advantage through reliable intelligence and observation. The fact remains, however, that perceptions and psychological effects of military assets are not, by any means, grounded solely in their actual effectiveness.
Reply #152 Top
Which would frighten trained soldiers more? A combat robot designed to look and move like the Alien, or a pink box with flowers on treads with a gun which can rip up a tank in half in an eyeblink?

I wonder. :)
Reply #153 Top
a pink box with flowers on treads with a gun which can rip up a tank in half in an eyeblink?
End of quote


...nicknamed "THE DESTROYER OF WORLDS"...
Reply #154 Top
Which would frighten trained soldiers more? A combat robot designed to look and move like the Alien, or a pink box with flowers on treads with a gun which can rip up a tank in half in an eyeblink?I wonder.
End of quote


The former would have the advantage of moving and acting in a way most soldiers are not used to. Of course this advantage can be trained against.

A gun that can rip apart things is something soldiers are used to, we've been training for that for a while. The advantage of perception is, as I said before, lost when proper intelligence is used to create adequate training for the military mind to defend against it. We've been training soldiers to resist the psychological effects of ballistic weapons, or even just ranged weapons capable of inflicting damage, for some time now. We have NOT trained them to deal with an alien body moving in ways unnatural to the human form.

Then again, something that looks "nice" but can be perceived as dangerous and powerful is unnerving as well, so there's psychological effect there as well outside of sheer firepower.
Reply #155 Top
Yes, but the idea is that humans, like every other animal, base their threat assessment on pattern recognition, amongst other things. We are never going to get so unnerved by something painted blue or yellow as we are going to get unnerved by something painted blood-red. You can train all you want, but I am certain soldier training does not include thorough courses on understanding their subconcious motivations, and that's the only way to truly master emotions such as fear.

Our earthly weapons are designed with cost and practicality in mind. We don't spend extra material and money to make them look menacing, they look menacing because we learned to associate them with danger. Take a gun for example. That's a menacing shape for us, even though it looks like a slightly squarish banana. Star Trek's phaser steps away from that shape and looks like a remote. And does not look nearly as menacing as the Klingon disruptors which retain their gun pattern.

Now imagine how much more menacing a weapon would feel if it included things which we instinctively fear - fangs, talons, speed (when running towards us) and spikes, black and red colouring. You can train not to freak out, but training not to be afraid is something else entirely. And in combat situations, fear may not be an outright killer, but it certainly degrades your performance. Which gives the other side an advantage. Oldest trick in the book, you said as much yourself. :)
Reply #156 Top
what if the perceivedeffectiveness of a weapon system can be altered?Take, for example, the Vikings. They were not really the best with war. They were good fighters, but raiders primarily and easily annihilated by organised armies. Yet they were effective, amazingly so; why? Certainly it has to do in large part with their ability to hit fast enough that the defending locals could not mount an effective resistance, but I believe a great deal of their effectiveness was born of their frightening reputation. Tales of men turning into wolves and ravaging the enemy, stories of brutality and conquest and terror. These things helped make these people a fighting force to be reckoned with, even though their actual ability was less than advertised.Look, too, at pirates of the 17th-19th centuries. These guys didn't want to fire on their prizes, of course not, but rather wanted them to surrender without a fight. How did they do this? Fear. Reputation. Blackbeard hiding slow-burning match in his beard to seem more like a daemon than a man.Certainly the immediate look, the immediate aesthetic, of a weapon or army or any military asset is not necessarily carrying a psychological impact. Even if it does it still risks the loss of this advantage through reliable intelligence and observation. The fact remains, however, that perceptions and psychological effects of military assets are not, by any means, grounded solely in their actual effectiveness.
End of quote


I think that you've just strengthen my point, people didn't feared the longaxe or the canons on the pirates galeons, they feared the vikings and the pirates themselves, and don't forget them man of war in the age of sail hunted pirates as part of theier standing orders.

Certainly the immediate look, the immediate aesthetic, of a weapon or army or any military asset is not necessarily carrying a psychological impact. Even if it does it still risks the loss of this advantage through reliable intelligence and observation. The fact remains, however, that perceptions and psychological effects of military assets are not, by any means, grounded solely in their actual effectiveness.
End of quote


Agreed, weapon systems reputation can be more fearsome than thier real effectivness, you achive this by proparly used propoganda and selective use of the weapon in situations where it will cause total victory, OTOH when war do break out and the weapon is in wide use than the true effectivness of the weapon can be assessed so the perceived psycological effecet diminished.



Which would frighten trained soldiers more? A combat robot designed to look and move like the Alien, or a pink box with flowers on treads with a gun which can rip up a tank in half in an eyeblink?
End of quote


it all depened on a large number of variables, the first one will be is the robot a known weapon system? if it is than you can write a combat doctrine to fight it and train your soldiers accordingly.
If not than it will be freaking scary when you first encounter it because we fear most that which we don't know.

I'll sum my opinions:
Form derived from purpose in weapon systems since any conceived psycological effect due to esthetics will diminish or be non-exist.
Fear and awe is somthing that can only be achive by actions in war and not by building this fearsome looking tank.

a pink box with flowers on treads with a gun which can rip up a tank in half in an eyeblink.
End of quote


We allready have somthing like that, it's called a Main Battle Tank that was painted in pink (i've seen somthing like this once, when i was in tanker school we accidantly spilled 4 litters of red paont on the front of our tank, took us 2 days to clean it up :NOTSURE: )

Cheers
Warder



Reply #157 Top
Take a gun for example. That's a menacing shape for us, even though it looks like a slightly squarish banana.
End of quote


Good point! Perhaps, when the first gunpowder weapons came out, people laughed at them for looking like one-legged metal trousers... or something...
Reply #158 Top
Damn should have read the earlier posts.....
Fangs and claws on spaceships is not somthing that i'll worry about, unless that ship can get to my ship really fast to rip it apart, OTOH if the enemy is fast enough to catch me no matter what than i'm doomed anyway because the enemy can simply build ultra fast kinetic kill vehicels and bombard me to death.

So if there were cute pink space ponies flying around who are unkillable can shot homming fireballs from thier eyes and nukes from thier a** than they will be a menacing shape.

Ever read David Weber book The Apocalypse Troll? you can find it here for free, anyway, there is a funny scene where one of the characters nearlly wipe out a zoo because the aliens look like one of our animals...
great book IMO.

Cheers
Warder

P.S
I've just realized that we hijacked this thread so i'm goning to quit posting here now, if you guys want to continue discussing this subjects in greater ditail than open a thread in the general section and i'll happily post there :D
Reply #159 Top
^ agreed.


Can someone direct me or bribe the creator into making a place where I can download that new, naval style model for the Kodiak?
Reply #160 Top
Personnaly I think that Dunov is a nice looking ship - bit blocky but nice. Same with Marza.

I agree that Kodiak is UGLY and that pirate Cuttroath > Kodiak but < than new custom Kodiak model of this topic :D

BTW does anybody think that Kol looks (in general) like Homeworld Taiidan Qwaar-Jet heavy cruiser ??
Reply #161 Top
Yeah, wondering if we'll see any of those new models of the Ugly Kodiak :)
Reply #162 Top
there are a couple good ships but for the most part i was disappointed by the way alot of the ships look mostly the pirate ships. i am a amiture modeler and i could make a cooler looking ship than that. but i have no idea how to get it in the game and i am a horrible texture artist lol. but i will say that the ones that are good are freking awesome!!!!
Reply #163 Top
IMO the Marza would look better with a longer back section to it.
Reply #164 Top
The TEC are about strapping guns to yachts, liners, and cargo ships. Deal with it.As many have already said here, the tec are supposed to be basically a bunch of rusty old tin cans with huge guns strapped to them. Im sure that that is what we would do if we were suddenly caught in a war with our pants down without any weapons, we would improvise, use jeeps and strap machine guns to em', put bombs in airliner jets, thats all the tec had at the start, old weapons that they had to improvise. That is why you say that they all look like they weren't made for war, they weren't-their just old cargo and freight ships with guns put on them. So just live with what you get.
End of quote


The TEC are secretly Minmatar transported by the JOVE to SINS.
Reply #166 Top
could we have other pirate ship designs or even a pirate capitol ship...

from above to below -a more navy design
-Albator Harlock ATLANTIS design 1
-Albator Harlock ATLANTIS design 2

WWW Link
Reply #167 Top
falshia i beg you, please upload your kodiak model somewhere because i like it very,very,very... much(and im sure others too) and would like it int the game
Reply #168 Top
anyone if you have alternate models of ships in sins please make them available for the public because not all can make them
i know you work a lot with them but you would get lot of thanks
Reply #169 Top
haa real sorry bout this guys, there've been abit of hiccup. First off, Staticstarter PMed me saying that he's moved on and will not work on this project anymore. Secondly i'm having export problems with Stannum's latest 3DS Exporter 2.0a

Until thats resolved i can't do much.
Reply #171 Top
Here the model
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=7d5915da228e8e217628b1301e5c5794&prevstart=0