A better way to balance the Vasari Rebel's Orkulus Starbase

Because players never build Kostura cannons or phase gates or anything like that.

While needing upgrades to have star bases phase jump was a popular solution, applying debuffs to starbases after they completed a phase jump was the first thing they tried to balance them. It didn't really work out.

He has a point though. Right now moving the base for offensive purposes to enemy gravity well is truly impractical. Basically only way to do that is via lvl 6 Antorak Marauder, which you would most likely not even build otherwise (since Kortuls, Eggs or Skirantras are so much more useful).

Personally i dont think turning the phase stabiliser module on Orkulus into 4-level upgrade allowing you jumping capability anywhere would be such a bad idea. You would have only 4 additional places for the other upgrades like weapon or hull, so the final fully upgraded base would not be the classic all-conquering behemoth. In other words, the mobility would come at a price.

But i dont really care that much, since i prefer VL anyway

Kostura cannon works as well, and Vasari players will have at least one late game anyways. 

I have yet to see a jumping Orky in competitive MP since they required a phase node....

I also can guarantee you that if it required 4 SB slots to phase jump, you would never see it in MP....even if you didn't have a debuff and didn't need a phase node to phase jump the Orky....

So your saying that the developers were thinking of that idea?

That is why I think the 4-level upgrades for phase stabilizer is a good idea. In the hands of a competent player, they could go for level 3 or 2 of phase stabilizer. If they can protect it in its disabled state, then they will have a stronger starbase to assist their fleet.

I also like the VL, their on board ship labs does wonders in freeing up the logistic slots of military/civilian labs.

I guess you could say I over reacted a bit. I still stand with 4-level upgrades idea. Though I should give this "current state" of the VR another shot. It still bugs me that you cannot move a starbase to a star if it already has one. I know it's a minor annoyance. Oh well I guess it's better than the first beta, when only one starbase is active while the others were disabled.

Thanks your comments are helpful in clearing some of my concerns.

It was widely suggested and lobbied for, so I am almost certain the devs were aware of the idea.

Technically what would happen is that everyone would just get the two phase stabalizer upgrades. Debuffs were totally ineffective with balancing it before, it would be infinitely better to invest in additional defensive upgrades to just take hits better until the debuffs are over.

If the game goes long enough for Kostura cannons to be used, I don't know why they wouldn't be used. Though the change might have just discouraged people from playing VR in the first place.

Well, you cant know it for sure and since the current solution does not really work that great anyway (as you basically said yourself by stating you are yet to see it happen), i say its worth a consideration at least. And it does not have to be 4 slots, maybe 3 would be enough... OFC no debuff nor phasenode would be needed anymore with this solution.

@GoaFan> you are right, totally forgot about Kostura.

I'll just throw this post in here to support the general concept of this suggestion.

It's been a little more than a year since I played.  I came back to the game a week or two ago and noticed this change.  Can't say as though I see a difference in the effectiveness of the jumping Orky other than putting more restrictions on the when and how it can jump.  The result is still the same, just it comes later in the game.

The problem with a debuff after jump is that it's only temporary.  Eventually it wears off and the Orky goes back to full strength.

By putting the phase jump as a higher level upgrade to something else (the phase stabilizer upgrade makes sense), this essentially permanently debuffs any Orky you want to be able to jump from system to system, while still allowing the flexibility of having a full strength starbase as a static defense.

I actually remember posting on this very subject last year sometime.  At the time, I believe the phase stabilizer upgrade was 2 tiers (the second adding more antimatter), so I was advocating the mobility as the third.

OK I used the Kostura cannons, and it wasn't too bad. So I'll play around with it more to see if I will like it. However, I still think that #-level upgrades is the better way to go.

I'm going off topic here but, can anyone tell me why GalaxyForge keeps on auto saving the maps that I make. I keep on having to delete them. Nearly 200 auto saves files have been deleted so far. Is it because that I keep GalaxyForge open?

Yes.  My best guess was it was their attempt at an "undo" feature.

Because....

VR picks are pretty rare....I think a large part of it has to do with the fact the VR early game is not really different from the VL early game, and VL have the better titan by far...unless you knew in advance that you'd be eco, there's not much advantage in picking VR over VL...even if you are eco, most players would still want to be VL because of the superior titan, which comes out far sooner than jumping Orkies and kostura spam could...

Some things I'd like to point out....

First, a major reason why people used to be big advocates of jumping Orkies needing 1 or 2 SB upgrades was because that solution actually could have been implemented with no changes to the engine...the devs had to make a new research modifier to give us the current system where jumping Orkies need a phase node...since we now have the modifier, there is no longer a big push for SB upgrades being the solution...

Second, Stripped to the Core and Wail of the Sacrifice used to be in the same boat as jumping Orkies....they were too easy to get, too powerful, and too game changing to the point where either they or the factions that used them were banned...you will occasionally see SttC used, but honestly it is not all that common in MP games these days...as for wail, the only person I've seen use it in recent memory is in fact myself, though to be fair other players probably had it and the threat of it was relevant to the game...point being, jumping Orkies is not the only end-game that has been heavily nerfed to a point where it is rarely relevant....personally, I like the current situation: wail, SttC, and jumping Orkies are viable strategies but not the strategy...

So something nerfed to the point of being irrelevant, thats what you called viable strategy? LOL...

Not that i believe, that current implementation is bad. All these things are still OK for my needs, thus single-player experience. If the multiplayer community feels the same from their own perspective, then i guess we have found the happy medium, which should not probably touched anymore. Perhaps there is no way to balance these things in a manner, when they are not horribly OP, nor barely used in multiplayer. Perhaps this is the best way to have these things in the game.

But its definitely not ideal. As far as potential Sins II go, if the devs wont find a way to make it ideal by then, i hope they hold on their current doctrine - instead of scraping these techs altogether, since they cant be perfectly balanced for multiplayer. Clearly they dont have to be to keep most of single- and multiplayer players happy.

I think he meant to convey that they were nerfed to the point that a single tech no longer defines a faction. The way all of those things were, people would rush them at the expense of everything else because they were so game changing.

Should only be allowed to jump into friendly territory

Yes, as Vasari is meant to be a defensive and guerilla faction, not someone who can easily face both TEC and Advent at once..

That is exactly what I meant...I can always count on Goa to understand me....always..