Some thoughts about the game so far

Only recently got the game so bear with me.

Hi everyone, only got this game this weekend but i'm addicted  |-) . I like the gameplay and the empire building and find the game somewhat challenging.

 

Now, here a few thoughts about the game from what i seen so far (i'm quite far in my second game and keeping up with the AI on the challenging setting):

Defending cities:

I feel that part of the game is quite borked currently. It's very hard to keep troops where they are needed, and when you do have them keep them up-to-date. Militias, while they improve in damage potential, are attrocious because they are slow and don't use any armor. It's also silly they are outfitted with club/hammer weapons, i think it would be more fitting if they used lances or sword/shields instead (something more fitting for throw-away troops). Would be nice also if all the troops improvements affected the militias in town, making it more worthwhile to build those improvements even if you don't plan to make troops there.

Maybe there could be several types of militias:

Sword militias: Leather armor and sword, some bonuses to initiative. 

Sword/shield militias: Leather armor and shield + sword.

Spear Militias: Leather armor + Spear.

Archers Militias: no change there.

Crossbow Militias: When you get those...

 

Weapons:

Being somewhat knowledgable about weapons, i find it a bit sad the in game counterparts aren't used in a similar way to the real life ones. For example hammers were mainly used against armored opponents as they were much more effective at piecing/denting armor. Swords on other hands were more common/easier to make and much more effective at swatting lightly/non armored foes (quicker to swing, lighter to carry around). Spears/pikes, while they could be effective against armored enemies, were much more useful against mounted enemies (long reach, could impale the horse or it's rider). Axes were the middleground between swords and hammers... Oh and the bows and crossbows. Bows were much quicker to use, but required more skills to use (thus were less accurate), but could throw a lot of arrows at enemies. Crossbows on other hand were easier to use, and far more deadly (knights in full armor could be dropped by a peasant with a crossbow), but firerate was slow and range shorter than bows because bolts were much heavier.  

I think it could help immersion if the weapons were rebalanced in that regard.

Hammer: Less effective against lightly armored troops (easier to dodge their blow when not wearing combersome armor). That would help making lightly armored units more viable when heavier weapons are becoming more common. Maybe the initiative difference between the attacker and the target could be added to dodge, while heavier armor would reduce it.

Swords: Those weapons should be good at hitting lighter amored foes but less effective against high armor enemies (armor were made to protect against those).

Axes: Middleground, less accurate than swords, but also more damaging.

Spears: Add a bonus against mounted units for all the variant. Would be nice if they also had more reach, like 2 squares, but less effective when up close (this would make them more useful when in second line, behind shield troops).

Bows: Reduce the initiate penalty. Bows could have a "rain of arrows" special attack that could shower and area with arrows. Oh and set an appropriate range to them (like 6-12-18 depending on variant).

Crossbows: Give them an armor piercing effect and an accuracy bonus (would make them way more useful as well late game), but keep them slower than bows. Range could be 5-9 depnding on variant.

 

Besides that i think it's alright so far.

 

Is it something that can be modded?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

17,395 views 12 replies
Reply #1 Top


Is it something that can be modded?

 
End of quote

Yes. Most of the stuff you suggested is possible to mod. I also think there is a mod that gives leather armor to militia somewhere. (search armored militia or something)

Reply #2 Top

Excellent ideas about weapons. I've been thinking about similar changes for more realistic immersion; especially spears against mounted.

Balancing this may take some time though

Reply #3 Top

Glad you like. Is this something you are working on?

Reply #4 Top

The suggestions you have here were in Elemental : Fallen Enchantress. Weapons strength and weaknesses were effective against against certain armors. It was found out later it made the game clunky and was removed with Legendary heroes.  I believe this information is still found in the XMLs and might be able to turn it backon. Should they change it...I think its fine how it is. 

Reply #5 Top

Quoting Illauna, reply 4

The suggestions you have here were in Elemental : Fallen Enchantress. Weapons strength and weaknesses were effective against against certain armors. It was found out later it made the game clunky and was removed with Legendary heroes.  I believe this information is still found in the XMLs and might be able to turn it backon. Should they change it...I think its fine how it is. 
End of Illauna's quote

Can you define what you mean by "clunky"? 

 

Reply #6 Top

Recommend Parrotmath's Armormilitia mod for you. Gives city defenders armor, one set weaker than the one you have tech'd out.

 

 

Reply #7 Top

Quoting Foraven, reply 5

Quoting Illauna, reply 4
The suggestions you have here were in Elemental : Fallen Enchantress. Weapons strength and weaknesses were effective against against certain armors. It was found out later it made the game clunky and was removed with Legendary heroes.  I believe this information is still found in the XMLs and might be able to turn it backon. Should they change it...I think its fine how it is. 

Can you define what you mean by "clunky"? 

 
End of Foraven's quote

 

I never played the earlier games, but I believe the story was that there were different damage types and different types of armor.  It was all scrapped for FE:LH to simplify the system because it got "clunky" by bogging you down with stuff that sucked/was boring/not necessary/immersion breaking.   At any rate there was an executive decision to remove the different damage types.

 

Swords, Spears, Axes and Hammers all have special abilities to differentiate between them.  These are not necessarily tied to their historical uses but they are a little bit in line with what you can use the weapon for.   Each weapon type IS different and I think that is the point that you are after.   FE:LH isn't a historical simulator.   If you'd like to mod in additional or different abilities that is good but I'm happy with the weapon differentiation already in the game.

Reply #8 Top

Also I believe the code is still in the game if you want to bring that system back. I havent modded for a while but I seem to recall seeing the damage types in the XML. 

Reply #9 Top

Quoting Illauna, reply 4

The suggestions you have here were in Elemental : Fallen Enchantress. Weapons strength and weaknesses were effective against against certain armors. It was found out later it made the game clunky and was removed with Legendary heroes.  I believe this information is still found in the XMLs and might be able to turn it backon. Should they change it...I think its fine how it is. 
End of Illauna's quote

They put it on the armor though, not the weapons, which made it confusing. That was the mistake, also no mount defensive bonuses except dodge from ranged. It will be a lot of work to make something like suggested happen in a mod, but it is certainly possible. (you would probably need to tweak every weapon, as well as making some new unitstats to mounts etc.)

Reply #10 Top

Quoting sjaminei, reply 9


Quoting Illauna, reply 4
The suggestions you have here were in Elemental : Fallen Enchantress. Weapons strength and weaknesses were effective against against certain armors. It was found out later it made the game clunky and was removed with Legendary heroes.  I believe this information is still found in the XMLs and might be able to turn it backon. Should they change it...I think its fine how it is. 

They put it on the armor though, not the weapons, which made it confusing. That was the mistake, also no mount defensive bonuses except dodge from ranged. It will be a lot of work to make something like suggested happen in a mod, but it is certainly possible. (you would probably need to tweak every weapon, as well as making some new unitstats to mounts etc.)
End of sjaminei's quote

Well, if i understand right they tried to implement a realistic combat mechanic but ended up making it complicated and confusing. I don't believe it need to be complicated and confusing to be realistic (ie have battles fought in a realistic manner); we don't need to know what kind of damage each weapon types do, just that they have different purposes. It can be done with the same elegant simplicity they used to create unit's traits; bonuses against certain types of targets (and possibly maluses against others). The bonuses and maluses don't need to be big either, just enough to make the player consider different designs more suited for their playstyle or what they are likely to face. 

I'm really tempted to try to mod this myself, but i have yet to learn where the stuff is and what can be changed for my purposes. I don't mind if i have to redo lots of items/units in the game, i'm that kind of masoshist  :grin:

 

Reply #11 Top

I suggest you start with pikes and mounts then. Coreweapons.xml and CoreMounts.xml as well as UnitStats.xml

https://forums.elementalgame.com/444737/page/1 this should hopefully help get you started with the unitstats that should be the hardest issue to mod. 

Just pop in the modding help thread if you get stuck, and don't be afraid to experiment ;)

If you get this mod right, I want it ^^

 

 

 

Reply #12 Top

Quoting sjaminei, reply 11

I suggest you start with pikes and mounts then. Coreweapons.xml and CoreMounts.xml as well as UnitStats.xml

https://forums.elementalgame.com/444737/page/1 this should hopefully help get you started with the unitstats that should be the hardest issue to mod. 

Just pop in the modding help thread if you get stuck, and don't be afraid to experiment

If you get this mod right, I want it ^^ 
End of sjaminei's quote

 

I'm already looking through the files and see what i can mod. I also found out i could just mod certain aspect of the files without having to include all the stuff i don't mean to change: that should make compatibility easier with other mods :). I also plan on changing the weapon progression to be more common sense, like club -> mace -> mallet -> war hammer... I really should fetch my medieval weapon book and start looking at what would make sense to have in game  :yes:

 

I will start a thread in LH modding.