The phase jump capable starbase of the Vasari Rebels should not be capable of having phase stabilizers aboard

from Sins Forums

Unfortunatly this means that the idea with making it the hird upgrade for phase stabilizers to balance it is not a good idea.

 

@Developers: The Vasari Rebel starbase needs to be nerfed. HARD. Just for the protocoll.

 

There is a grave danger with giving a jump capable starbase the ability to stabilize phase space.

 

Vasari Loyalist: Kostura target planet... jump in your fleet.... use Titan to create a phase node back to your empire. - this still might be the most powerful ability in the entire game... especially on largers maps. But at least you just have to deal with one fleet.

 

Vasari Rebel: Kostura target planet....  jump in your fleet and an Orkulus starbase... once the starbase is there... use stabilize phase space.

BUT now... with Shared Networks... nor only your fleet will be there... but soon your allies will join it... via the same uncounterable route.

 

In large teams game.... you can probably give the jumping Orky 0 armor and 1000 Hitpoints... the ability to summon the entire alliance fleet to one hostile planet would still be extremely overpowered.

 

 

I guess this got not noticed yet, because right now the overpowered version of the starbase is usually enough to deal with about anything.

 

 

So the several times suggested idea to make phase jump engines on the Orky an upgrade to stabilize phase space is not a good idea balancingwise.

 

Instead for the Rebels it should replace that upgrade

 

Then after a hefty nerf, the Vasari rebel starbase might actually be balanced.

 

 

 

15,892 views 10 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Wat?? I guess because no one plays them online I've been unaware of this ability. Are you telling me the VR starbsae Shared Network tech allows allies, Vasari or not, to ignore phase lanes and jump directly through space to whichever planet the SB is at??

Wow, the Devs must've been smoking some powerful stuff when they thought that would be balanced.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

It's things like this that make me feel that there should only be one Orkulus Rex at a time.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

I don't really see what the big deal about the starbase is. Yes, with shared networks a VR player and his allied can jump together with a Kostura jump, assuming the allies were also jumping for locations that had phase stabalizers. And yes, and orky has an upgrade that can let them reopen the phase gate. But as you said, on allied VL player that goes with him via a titan can do the same thing but better, and I guess the Antorak can as well. What exactly does the Orky contribute that makes this situation so much worse, besides the fact it can also phase jump to the target?

Quoting Ekko_Tek, reply 1
Wat?? I guess because no one plays them online I've been unaware of this ability. Are you telling me the VR starbsae Shared Network tech allows allies, Vasari or not, to ignore phase lanes and jump directly through space to whichever planet the SB is at??

The allies must be on the phase network as well, but yes. That's how the phase pact worked as well back in Diplomacy.

 

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 3
What exactly does the Orky contribute that makes this situation so much worse, besides the fact it can also phase jump to the target?

Imagine trying to destroy a phase stabilizer structure. Then imagine trying to kill a late game upgraded Orkulus instead. It makes a quantum difference in mobility for 2 factions instead of 1 and their reinforcements. I've never seen it though as I say; it just sounds supremely OP. Fun, but OP.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

I've "seen" it because I've personally done it, but that was in a troll MP game...I actually find it better to place orkies at allied HWs, give those orkies SPS, and then your allies can jump from their HW to any of your SBs at will...of course, this was with VL and OP SttC, so it actually made sense that fleets would spend a lot of time at HWs...

It is ridiculously OP, but I think there is some misunderstanding going on...some people want a 2nd level of SPS to allow jump capabilities while some people want SPS to be replaced by a different upgrade that allows jumping (this upgrade could have multiple levels, with several debuffs or long jump times being applied at the lower levels)....

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

I agree with the OP. Coincidentally I just found out the most ridiculous tactic using rebel vasari.

Kostura to opponent's home world - then jump in with Orky.

Take out everything - then jump in 25 seige frigates and wipe out planet in 30 seconds. Then retreat the whole kaboodle before the enemy has a clue what hit them or simply walk your starbase and siege frigates onto the next planet. Rinse and repeat like some horrible cancer in their back yard. I clocked 4 worlds before there was any serious resistance from their recalled fleet at which point I just retreated having caused tens of thousands worth of damage. At which point my other starbases came in on the periphery worlds... Needless to say the game was over anyway because I had jumping starbases... 

Someone tell me this isn't game breaking? It's game breaking enough that with rebel vasari you effectively have 5-10 Titans floating around bashing everything in sight. I don't bother playing as any other race now unless I want to give myself a handicap.

 

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting lovingit2, reply 7
I agree with the OP. Coincidentally I just found out the most ridiculous tactic using rebel vasari.

Kostura to opponent's home world - then jump in with Orky.

Take out everything - then jump in 25 seige frigates and wipe out planet in 30 seconds. Then retreat the whole kaboodle before the enemy has a clue what hit them or simply walk your starbase and siege frigates onto the next planet. Rinse and repeat like some horrible cancer in their back yard. I clocked 4 worlds before there was any serious resistance from their recalled fleet at which point I just retreated having caused tens of thousands worth of damage. At which point my other starbases came in on the periphery worlds... Needless to say the game was over anyway because I had jumping starbases... 

Someone tell me this isn't game breaking? It's game breaking enough that with rebel vasari you effectively have 5-10 Titans floating around bashing everything in sight. I don't bother playing as any other race now unless I want to give myself a handicap.

 

Oh it is game breaking, and just think, your team could be facing 5 of these jumping by the time fleets start to get big, the rebel player can assault your whole team at once and have support anywhere they need it.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

If u want to balance this i'm afraid you have to remove the coolest ability of the vasari: Take the orkulus phase stabeliser ability away... You can still make it up by for example also disable the enemy's starbase on impact.

But then you can't jump to whatever planet you desire. If u still want to do this then you first have to get or, as rebel a starbase with phase stabeliser jumping trugh a few hostile planets. or with loyalists with the Titan and then creat a phase tunneler on the planet you wish to attack. Then it is still possible but if you manage to do that, you clearly deserve this attack! (p.s. for both factions when the antorak capital ship level 6 gets by, but what are the odds of that?!)

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Title alone gets my thumbs up.  Ram a Jumping Orky through several points to plant a jump node, then bring in ambush fleet... ouch. 

I'm for 2 different starbase entities; 1 for each vasari faction, but other solutions exist.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

As much as I HATE to agree to any kind of Starbase Nerf, this kinda seems legit.........Maybe a debuff to damage, regen, armor that applies after each jump?

Or make it take the destabilization damage an enemy ship takes when leaving a gravity well with an enemy starbase in it every time it makes a jump, so it can't just blow through?(Hope you get what I mean by that.)

This could be explained by the fact that the Starbases weren't designed to jump through Phase Space.  (Yeah, most of you don't seem to care about the lore, but some of us do.)

-Twi