Vasari Missile Platform - Disruptor Nanites should not affect Titans

Hey! I was about to make a thread about this! No fair!

In all seriousness though I agree, the Vasari have lots of little things like this.

Yes... weak alone... but when combined.... nearly unkillable....

Well, first of all the missile platform could do that way before titans were around. Second, as the missile platform cannot move, just don't use your titan to destroy them. Let your frigates do the work.

All turrets are pathetic late game, because everyone builds tons of bombers to deal with titans anyways. Bombers that can destroy turrets with each no matter what upgrades they have.

Yes its a great turret upgrade, but one that has minimal impact on the game once you are aware of it and know to avoid it with your important ships.

A group of well placed turrets will be in range of your jumping in point.... killing your regeneration for 5 minutes no matter what....

Alone that is of course not a problem.... but for some odd reason the Vasari players tend to mix it up with hangar defenses with phasic trap and a lovely Orky with maxed out armor (35 for VR) and nearly half a thousand DPS per second. Yes, your bombers will kill it in time, but not until it has done severe damage to your fleet. Thats enough punishment to nearly destroy a god damm level 6 Eradica...

This is easily dealt with.  In a game a while back where I was VR (for the record, in MP, I avoid using jumping Orkies; I just like the other techs of the VR), my opponent VL.  He sent his Vorastra and fleet against a Kultorask, a couple Assailants, and a semi-upgraded Orky.  He didn't seem to notice when I built up a single PM turret behind my ships and then proceeded to retreat behind it, thus exposing his Vorastra to its passive.

PM turrets aren't OP, you just have to know to avoid them.  They can't move, so unless you let your fleet wander into their range (which you should avoid anyways as you never want more DPS coming at you anyways), you'll be fine.  If you do mess up though, you should probably retreat if you're looking at a longer battle because over that duration, titans heal back a ton of health.

Honestly the only part I'm concerned about is the AM.   Stopping hull/shield regen is a pretty significant combat buff with titans, but can be dealt with via ability shield/hull restores.

The AM regen aspect though I think may need to get looked at. Titan abilities are what make titans a titan.  AM drain is already very strong against titans- And unlike hull/shield repair there isn't a ton in the way of abilities that restore AM directly(and what does exist is pretty conditional).

Being able to nearlyguarantee the titan recover no AM and thus be unable to cast abilities for 5 minutes the moment it hits 0 AM is a bit much.  Disabling the abilities of a titan should require on-going effort, not just "get it to 0 once and pretty much guarantee no more ability casts for 5 minutes".

Yes it can be avoided is some cases, but honestly I just thing it's too much of a contribution for a single turret.

Again though, I'm not so against the hull/shield aspect- But the AM regen aspect definitely shouldn't affect titans IMO.

I could see a -50% (so in actually, a -33%, Bilun) reduction in AM generation for titans but I'd really rather it stay in some capacity..

Honestly I think that would be plenty to make it reasonable.  It's just the potential of 5 minutes of titan abilities disabled is a hard pill to swallow.

Unless you're Advent which have recharge structures and Disciples and TEC culture regen might not be stopped by this either.

Vasari...

Only faction to have structures that directly counter titans....

Only faction to have cap ability that can prevent titans from phase jumping...

Only faction that can completely disable bombers, the counter to such said structures and caps...

If you're getting hit by phase batteries chances are you're in any enemy well and there aren't any rechargers handy  

Gravity Bomb affects titans?

Details 

Dealing with an maxed out Orky takes time... even with dozens of bomber wings.. 

Far worse... as the damm thing can move - and at an rather impressive speed for its size - you just cant wait on your jump in point, even if it is out of turret range. You have to start flying away from it....

Running away from it AND avoiding the turrets is often very difficult.... if not impossible. And your fleet might end you up on the wrong side of the gravity well when his fleets jumps in with vengeance. Just wonderful... phase missiles, pulses and waves from above and an angry Orky from below.... How I love it when I get 30 fleet supply "back" per second

The antimatter recharge stop is excessive powerful. Especialy against Advent, who rely heavily on their abilties for maximum fleet synergy. There is a reason, Advent got the best antimatter recharge upgrades.

Fighting a late game Vasari is Advents worst nightmare. To be successful in such an endavour you have to use every single ability at your disposal, preferably including a Level 10 Eradica on Chastic Burst rampage.

But that rampage is going to be very short lived without AM regeneration. BTW, this also means that most of the all new awesome Unyielding Will ability wont work, too.

0 antimatter regeneration multiplied with 800 % is still 0...

There is not much Advent have to offer when it comes to dealing with phase missile damage:

• Hull repair - disabled for 5 minutes - 5 minutes in which every single hull damage done is not repaired at all. This does even hurt the TEC.... who has a ton of armor on their ships.
  
  
• Culture - requires total culture domination to be applied fully and even then is pretty much worthless.   You dont have culture when you are attacking an digged in Vasari... he however has a juicy damage bonus there.
  
  
• Vertigo - is usually not very effective even with full AM regeneration due to the comparable low range and the fact that the Rapture tends do find an untimely end when the Vasari guy found out what is hampering his Kanraks. - without AM regeneration... lol
  
  
• Telekinetic Push - Vasari bombers are though.... so this is usually only useful for prolonging the life of your fleet, not saving it. It is quite AM hungry.... a few uses will deplete the Halycon.... if the vasari carriers are still there afterwards... you better make preperations for a very large memorial service...

Of course Shield restore, Guardians, Malice and Fracture wont work either... at least not for long. 

No, no... just go on... I dont need that Level 8 Progenitor... not at all..... ohhh that fireball over there? That was my Level 10 Halycon... before the latest Disintergrator volley, thats it....  well, I didnt liked the captain anyway... Sure go ahead killing my fleet... not like Advent ever have any money trouble after mid game... besides I wanted to build something more useful against Vasari anyway.... something like 200 colony ships for example...

5 minutes is an eternity in a battle.... and the effect last even if you leave the gravity well.... a chasing fleet is at an considerable advantage.

Advent defense get what? A minor damage increase? Yes, shield bestowal is nice, but its usefulness drops rapidly in the later stages of the game.

TEC? Nice turret abilities.... but nothing with such an huge area of effect.

Only the Vasari turret remains useful, because of this ability alone. At a range of 7500 there is little in the game that outranges the area.

I stand to it. A single cheap turret should not have such powers. Probably not even on capships but most certainly not on Titans.

Which is why i honestly believe that texts like this will ehance my sins gameplay to new heights as i troll around the battlefield. How is this possible? Well as you can see as a result of text like this i can honestly say the eradica needs to be buffed once again to take into account of everything humanly possible that put advent at a so called nightmare scenario. Don't get me wrong or anything because im just following the words of all who say something as to be done to make the advent more competitive- and unfortunately is fueling my troll tank.

First:  i therefore propose the Eradica's Microwave emiter Chastic Burst be buffed

Second: I propose Strength of the fallen be buffed even more to take into account just how people feel about the advent

Third: A buff that directly ehances the eradica to new heights and be the end of all sentient life as we know it e.g all advent titans have unlimited level points and earn experience 50% faster for each kill or convert.

Fourth: A buff to purification for no good reason what so ever.

Now since this directly influences the core fundamentals of titan developtment then i therefore suggest a buff to suppression's range for the Loyals.. Make it infinite and should also suppress culture in any gravity well. Make it so the enemy shits as soon as the coranata enters the battlefield and make it so all those church bells ringing and every ship the coranata converts earns its self 50% more experience level points of destroying them.

the rest: Coming soon....

People have been basically fine with this through Entrenchment and Diplomacy.  I can understand disliking it for titans because I agree titans are their abilities (unless you're talking about the Ragnarov's railgun that deals something like 200 DPS) but players have been dealing with this fine for capitals.

Also, Orkies are as mentioned above, anti-structure starbases.  Unlike the other two, they don't provide fleet support or have uncapped AoE's.  It deals raw damage and that's basically it so quite frankly, I'd much rather go against a defending Orky that's maxed than something like a maxed Transcencia because I don't have to put up with Mass Disorientation and Meteor Storm which obliterate my fleet's DPS (and they probably have Malice as well, so...).

Avoiding turrets is easy and they cannot be placed such that you die upon jumping in.  If you fight at the edge of the well (or just where the turrets aren't), you'll be fine.  It isn't hard.

And just a couple corrections, you say that the TEC has nothing compared to the range of PM turrets on their turrets?  Look at Meson Bolt.  8000 > 7500 plus missiles at short range.  Next, you say that few things outrange PM Turrets.  That's right.  Just things like Adjudicators and Orgovs which don't, you know, hard counter structures or anything.    LRF also outrange PM turrets.

My honest opinioin?  NERF TITANS....if titans aren't as important, then it ain't as big of a deal if they get affected by things like gravity warhead, disruptive nanites, etc....

The original sins was all about capital ships, still is but now the titans are the tip of the spear. Its just Titans of a Solar Empire

I agree with the OP with caveats. In the current system the only things that should affect AM regeneration on Titans is the Kortul, Radiance and Dunov. I'd think a Titans system should be immune to disrupter nanites in this scenario. 

I also think disruptor nanites effect lasts far to long compared to other abilities, but thats another story.

Ya, people are miffed over that too.

lol, original sins only had 1 or 2 capitals in play most games.  I see far more capitals now then in previous versions.

Basically agree here, especially as they don't lose levels there's less need for them to be uber starbases. Oh wait having phase jumping entities as strong as star bases is an issue? Funny thing is I wanted an upgrade for AL to have moving star bases (not PJ, just moving). I was told that was WAY to powerful because of meteor storm. So we just give that to Titans that can jump anywhere. Derp!

It's not really the titan themselves, it's the AOE damage on the titans or the crazy shit like the micro jump/maw. Titans die just like anything else if you starve off their AM. Though, I'll admit with their passive and leveled upgrades that does get more difficult as they progress in levels. Eventually its like taking down a max upgraded star base. Lower levels they're pretty easy to kill. 

Lol....you should't have told me that....that's just more ammo for my upcoming rant....

Why don't we just make the Titans invulnerable to all turrets and small frigates and mines then...

I'd like to see the equivalent of Maelstrom's titan which is limited by abilities to a single one in play just like titans in Rebellion.  

Use the same concept to create a special "one-of" capital ship that excels at only one thing--having abilities that hurt titans and little else.  Think of it as an upscaled corvette.

So it could have hull reducing, engine stopping, shield reducing,  antimatter draining, etc., etc. that effects titans only--you could even vary the abilities by faction--just like corvettes.

So you would have a relatively weak capital that required protection from other capitals and massed frigate fleets that could make hit and run attacks on a titan that would allow normal fleets to have a better chance of success against them but that also would have to be carefully used to be available and effective.

Now we just need an Orkulus hunter.  In fact, the rebels Orkulus Rex could take the place of their titan hunter-killer.

because there no longer the king of the hill thats why lol. Just pawns on the battlefield.

I had another game today.

 Under the assumption that you do not jump into the range of Disruptor Nanites (happens quite often in smaller gravity wells) you actually might still be forced to enter the range of the turrets:

30 Lasuraks of the enemy were at the other side of the gravity well. Phase missile bombers, of course.

So what I am supposed to do against that? Keep sitting where I am... watching a capital ship die every other 10 seconds?

Or should I at least try to get to the carriers? I decided to do just that. And so of course ..... 5 minutes no regeneration of any kind.

Phase missiles + no hull regeneration + advent unimpressive armor = death

Death that costed the Vasari a fraction of your losses.

TEC no doubt will have it somewhat easier... not only their repair cruisers will at least partially work, but they are far more heavily armored and got considerable more hullpoints. Still, even their Titan will be drained for 5 minutes.

Yes, all races have some nasty form of defense..... a  maxed Transcenia Base that protects aerias is nothing to sneeze at either. But at least its Mass disorientation doesnt last that long. And Meteor Storm requires a while to do large damage.

Phase Missiles + Disruptor Nanites + Phasic Trap + Orky and you can be assured to take 3 times the losses the Vasari would take vice versa...

Am I the only one finding this a bit OP?