[MOD] Starbase Mobilization Changed to an Upgrade

Honestly I don't really like the idea. It makes sense, but doesn't exactly fix the problem. Because eventually the Vasari-R player WILL get to the point of having an orky and titan jump to your systems. Albeit a bit slower than before. I just don't see why they don't make it only jumpable in friendly territories.

A good compromise would be lets use both our ideas and put your upgrade in with Enforced Loyalty, it would make enforced Loyalty less niche also. (I honestly hate how Aux. Govt, Enduring Devotion, and Enforced Loyalty ONLY keep planets under your control, I thought it would be cool if they could secure neutrals too <__<).

I think you misunderstand what it would do.  Jumping would be just as fast but would necessarily require that Orkies be weaker since the player would have to devote two levels to Stabilize Phase Space which will make the Orky weak in some regard.  Right now, one of the main reasons why it is OP is that you can send in a maxed out Orky which is incredibly hard to counter.

Something else I thought of was that you could probably give a jumping Orky a negative trade income since the precise amount is set in the upgrade file.  I don't think negative income is taxed either, so late-game, it would be more a handicap.

Goa and I have also both made SM require both levels of Enhanced Phase Tunneling, further pushing it towards the late-game.

Carbon approves of this idea!

My assumption is that the "upgrade" the VR player will sacrfice will be the 3rd weapon upgrade (which increases damage by 20%)...

VR eco players will have no trouble getting SB mobilization and enhanced tunelling....VR in eco will have to get 4 civ labs anyway to actually play eco effectively (trade comes at tier 4), and really any vasari player worth a damn is going to try and get 5 civ labs for phase stabilizers...so, to get enhanced tunnelling requires only 2 more labs...

So, what does this actually accomplish??  VR SB's do 20% less damage than they could otherwise, the eco player has to get 2 extra labs and 2 extra techs (3 if you count the SB upgrade tech), and they need to spend some more money on the extra upgrades (really, only one more upgrade since you swapped out 3rd weapon upgrade....

All you've done is delay how long the VR eco is going to be able to overwhelm everyone with ridiculousness...definitely better than the current situation, but doesn't solve the issue by any means...

I like having two levels of phase stabilization, but something else needs to occur...Starbase mobilization needs to impose taxation (15% or 20%) or SBs need to cost 150 fleet supply or something because late game VR are still going to have jumping orkies, and still are going to queue up a 2nd and 3rd one right behind the 1st ....

Also, IIRC a periodic action applies itself first, then looks at the interval time...not sure if your buff system considered that or if I'm just being dumb and missing something...

It'll do more than just prevent the last damage upgrade.  Remember that no one currently used SPS except in very rare circumstances and certainly never on a jumping Orky.  That's not just a difference of 1 upgrade, that's a difference of 2 which will make a difference.

That said, while talking to Carbon on TS3, he suggested that their engines would also be disabled upon arrival at an enemy planet which would be a very simple addition.  The Orky would still be able to fire and use abilities, but without being able to reorient itself, that will make a large impact on the effectiveness of its abilities (the deflector shield needs to face Orgovs/bombers and vortex is best if used from the middle of the enemy fleet), not to mention the fact that it will only get to use a fraction of its total DPS until after the expiration.

Also regarding my buff chain, remember that passive are effectively periodics, so it will indeed work.

I beg to differ, SPS is extremely useful, especially for a jumping orky...jump in to enemy gravity well, activate SPS, and jump in your fleet...no need for kostura, and if you ever need to retreat, SPS is your ticket out for both the fleet and the SB (unless SB's now no longer can use phase nodes, but I certainly am not aware of that change)...kostura's also can only target enemy gravity wells, so if you want the ability to phase jump to an ally's planet, SPS is your only viable option...

I would go so far as to say that SPS is probably the most useful upgrade out of them all, simply because players can't kill your phase network by sniping a phase stabilizer....kosturas are also somewhat problematic for timely retreats due to the travel time of the cannonshell and the turning time of the weapon...and like I said, SPS is the best way to get to neutral (wormholes and stars) or allied planets....

So, as far as I'm concerned, it's only a difference of one upgrade...not sure how I feel about the engines being disabled (or really any more direct nerfs to the Orky itself0, I still would rather have an economic cost (taxation or fleet supply) of having jumping SBs....

A serious economic cost (fleet supply or taxation) combined with a small opportunity cost (1 SB upgrade) and moderate increase in up front investment (2 SB upgrades, 3 extra techs, 2 extra labs) may or may not be enough, but I'd rather see how all that plays out before nerfing the Orky further with disabled engines and what not...

SPS is more useful I believe then you seem to think, but it still is a good start in balancing the orky (simply because it has to forgo wep/armor). How long were you thinking of the engine penalty? If the VR/allied support fleet jumps in with the orky, I don't see how it gains a whole lot, but it certainly does against an eco VR who's sending these things isolated everywhere.

I really do not like the idea of the orky using fleet supply, since now nothing differentiates it from a ship (and would it take fleet supply before it is researched, or after? If after, couldn't you build 20 and then research without enough fleet supply?).

Having a negative income penalty sounds good though (like a negative trade/pop income, a side effect of the second tier SPS ability)! It doesn't hurt fleet supply, but does eco.

My 2 cents on this issue.

mobile starbase -yeah, put in a penalty to fleet supply with the mobilization research, -10%.  An economy penalty would be good too.

Then again, just removing that damnable research item solves many issues.

For anyone who knows how to debug it, here's a [mostly] debugged version.  It doesn't work mind you.  Also, don't kill Orkies with the dev.exe's a->c->b.  It will crash.  Normal death appears to function fine however so I'm not as interested in fixing that issue.

For whatever reason, SPS isn't removing the buffs properly.  I know this block of code is reached, but I don't know why the following isn't getting executed:

periodicAction
actionCountType "Infinite"
actionIntervalTime
Level:0 99999.000000
Level:1 1.000000
Level:2 0.000000
Level:3 0.000000
buffInstantActionType "RemoveBuffOfType"
instantActionTriggerType "AlwaysPerform"
buffTypeToRemove "BuffPhaseStarbaseSameOrbitbodyDebuffWait"
periodicAction
actionCountType "Infinite"
actionIntervalTime
Level:0 99999.000000
Level:1 1.000000
Level:2 0.000000
Level:3 0.000000
buffInstantActionType "RemoveBuffOfType"
instantActionTriggerType "AlwaysPerform"
buffTypeToRemove "BuffPhaseStarbaseSameOrbitbodyDebuffDisabled"

For whatever reason, those periodics aren't working.  Any help would be much appreciated.

Yeah I realized it was possible too, and I think its a huge improvement on what we have now for one reason. As it is now, one tier 8 research will make all of your starbases jump. With this way, you still need to buy something on the individual starbases. Its not meant to make the Orkulus Rex much less dangerous, its to make it much less flexible, and to make spamming the things a bit harder to do.

Really though, is anything going to make this not a big deal Seleuceia? Any eco player is going to get anything eventually, heck they could probably get a research victory for the same price as the techs and a fully upgraded Orkulus. Short of making it cost 1000 fleet supply, that's not going to be a big deal for an eco player either.

The real issue seems to be starbases in general are just such a pain to bring down, and if you do manage it, that will come at the prices of a big chunk of your fleet, or with so many bombers the game will become unplayable. The only great solution seems to be to do what Volt did, give the Vasari an actual antistructure cruiser, and buff all the antistructure cruisers against starbases, but I know that won't be happening officially.

Goa, you have any idea why the above block of code doesn't remove the buffs?

I'll discuss on TS...not in the mood to write on forums anymore....

Actually, I was more trying to figure out why you were using periodic actions in the first place. You know I hate them.

It was a while ago when I was thinking about it, but I didn't think I had to use periodic to do it, so I think whatever you're trying to do is different from my approach. I'd try and set it up like this.

APSSOD Ability: ApplyBuffToSelf "Buff1"

Buff1: Stacking 1, no finish condition, ApplyBuffToSelf "Buff2"

Buff2: Disable phase jump. No finish condition.

Stabalize Phase Space ability: Make Passive, ApplyBuffToSelf "Buff1:

Buff1: Apply normal effect to planet, ApplyBuffToSelf "Buff2"

Buff2: RemoveBuffOfType "APSSOD Buff2" OnDelay 1.0. Set a finishingCondition of "TimeElapsed" of 0.0 for level 1, 1.1+ for level 2.

I like the idea of delaying the tech and making it an upgrade on the starbase itself.

So long as there is no tax on it, or fleet cost.  I think you are on to something there, Volt...

Well, I fixed the problem (and Goa, it no longer uses periodics   ) after completely restructuring it from the previous posted version.

I also changed a few strings to account for the new system.

Anyways, download here.

Wow--this should get some serious consideration by everyone.

I'll try it tonight.