Lovely new graphics less lag and great victory conditions exept occupation, but the crashes are cracking it down. 8.3/10

Edit: I hate occupation because it is just too damn easy to take over and AI doesn't even try to take it back.

So far mid 80's for me as well. And I am sure that will go up as the devs patch and rework all that needs to be reworked as well as they can.

I don't review games until after several patches....this is because the initial release can be awful, but patched versions can be absolutely fantastic...

We bitch and complain about Sins having issues, the devs sucking at balance, and the updates coming out slowly....but much bigger releases (Civilization and Total War games, as examples) suffer from the same problem...the CTDs in them aren't as common (if ever) but balance and non-CTD bug-wise, SoaSE is actually comparable to some of the major releases...

so far im very pleased with it, wish it would of been cheaper for past owners but as it stands 7/10, with more patchs and if was cheaper and more maps. 9/10

I am not really complaining, balance is a thin line, and since I only do SP, I play whatever race appeals to me for a few hours and then go play with a different race. And every game has issues, and playing EVE online test server a lot...I am used to some kind of issues The CTD are annoying, but with 1 crash in 2 games on average, I am fine with it altho it usually happens in the middle between auto saves so I have to do a lot of actions again

Virtually all pros have stopped playing. How's that for a review?

I will voice my opinion here once they fixed the jumping Orkulus starbase...

If you mean online playing Dota 2, EU3 and D3 then yeah, they're online.

Speaking strictly from a modder's POV, who doesn't care at all for the base game, I give it a 72. -10% for the whole galaxy map version 4 screw up.

How is EU3?  I see Radioactive playing it quite frequently...

ouch... already reviews are into DOTA2 EU3 and D3... Son loves DOTA2 and discovered the joy of Chaos Knight.  17/4/21 first time with him and just yesterday 12/2/16.  He can't stand Rebellion.

I'm glad the pros if you can call them that aren't playing our group of 6 plays sins regularl for our game nights. We get the memory chugs but considering the size of some of the maps we play on that's not surprising. It's kept us entertained for many many hours on end. so from the 6 of us it's at least 85 to 90

As for balance everyone is different your ideas of balance don't match mine so who is right?

Only relevant if you buy a game for the multiplayer. I wouldn't count that as more than 10% of a review score for a game like this.

I mostly agree with the scores its gotten, especially if I didn't know how much more potential this expansion could have had and if price was irrelevant. Most of these reviewers aren't long time Sins users like us. At most they played the earlier ones a couple of time. They aren't going to understand the metagame or modding stuff like maps. They're reviewing the game as being mostly new after a handful of games, barely opening their eyes by our standards. And this is the area where Rebellion does the best.

A game without campaign, lacking scope/tech tree of typical 4X/Civ games?

I agree, sins lacks the depth and "immersion" that would prime it for a true SP 4X....the shallowness that makes it a light 4X is exactly what makes Sins destined for MP...the pace, the UI, the simplicity and streamlining, all of it points to "this game is meant to be played with other people"...

Of course, we all still assume that SP represents the majority of the player base, but who plays and who should play I guess are two different things...

SivCorp's review -

Sins of a Solar Empire : Rebellion

Definition : 4X real time strategy space game

Scale - 9/10 

 -- Simply massive, seamless scale from single fighter to Titan to galaxy.  Support for very large fleet battles.  Adjustable speeds on many game stats at the start of the game open up many different game play styles.  Only limited by 32bit engine.  

 -1 for old engine

Gameplay - 8/10

 -- A fun game from start to finish.  Length of multiplayer games may deter some players, but winning isn't determined by your clicks per minute... it actually captures some strategy.  Overall game has a steep learning curve from basics to expert, but many strategies and multiple win conditions leave the game wide open for different styles of gameplay.

 -1 for lack of campaign 

 -1 for balance and bug issues

Graphics - 9/10

 -- The engine upgrade on shadows and surfaces was a very good upgrade to the ships.  Most models look absolutely stunning now.  The only problem now is the limited engine.  Particle counts are low once many ships are all in battle, and the strike craft and mines issues bog down the engine in late game play.

 -1 for engine limitations

Support - 9/10

 -- Support and patches for this game have continued from the developer from day one.  Modding options have been continually added to the engine for many diverse mods.  Many bugs have been found and continually crushed by the developers over many years now.  The only drawback is the limits of ICO/steam.

 -1 for ICO/steam limitations (matchmaking, map transfer, ect.)

Longevity - 9/10

 -- I haven't stopped playing this game from the first day it came out.  The wide modding support has aided in this extensively.  The balance issues may cause problems for some MP's, but single play or comp stomps can be quite entertaining with all the different ways to get to victory.

 -1 for balance and some modding issues (updated tools?)

Total - 44/50 - x2 = 88/100

An enjoyable space game with great scale, style and replayablity, but brought down by its engines age and missing key gameplay elements.  

What are the MP stats?  How many players, games, etc... per day?  Never could get solid info even for vanilla, entrenchment and trinity. 

There's plenty of people who only play RTS game single player too. Besides Sins, I've only played a little C&C Generals online. Fair amount of Rise of Nations with friends. Rest of my collection multiplayer hasn't been touched.

It's not like I don't play SP, but Sins is just  bad SP experience. There are real 4x or other grand scale strategy games for that.

I suppose in design phase Sins were meant to be much more of a 4X game. Somewhere along the road it morphed into faster paced, 3/4 RTS, 1/4 4X mix we have now, yet devs refused to accept that it's just not as suitable for SP play as GalCiv2 or similar games.

With very slight design changes and half-decent MP interface Sins could be Multiplayer hit. Pity it's not what devs have envisioned, but it's their game after all.

Still, to be honest, I feel like most of the potential of this great game has  been wasted.

Gotta say, deathmatch mode -min/max tech levels (start tier 4, max tier 7 -last tier unavailable), slider for resource multiplier, and option for 'fleet start' would certainly give the game an edge.

It's hard to understand what "wasted potential" is without having been a hardcore fan of the original Unreal Tournament (1999).  It was an amazing game for online multiplayer whose sequels paled in comparison because of consolization, especially the abomination that was UT3.

Boy, back in the day UT/Diablo 2/Starcraft were my holy trinity. UT Instagib + ZeroPing Mutator (which added in client side prediction, a big deal for my self at the time with 56k) will always be one of the greatest moments of gaming for me of all time.

The problem with Rebellion is a problem that so many large games with small teams have: Balance. I mean beyond the technical bugs which have been annoying and particularly plaguing some people it's the balance that a game lives or dies by in this category.

I feel that Rebellion like Trinity will need time to mature for proper balance to occur, whether this is 6mo's to a year is anyone's guess. Looking at games like Sword of the Stars #1 you see the same issues that if reviewed at launch and never having given a second look at it years later one would think the game sucks, potential yes, but sucks in reality.