Role Types...

Why do the frigate role types have plenty of variables, but yet, the one for caps only have invalid and colony?  Anybody know why this is?

On a side note, I also noticed that if you have a nonstandard type of additional capital ship, the AI will only build it if you change the roletype to colony.

17,952 views 13 replies
Reply #1 Top

Because the AI only cares if the capitalship is a colony type or not. Early on the AI tends to build colony caps but then shifts to the other types. As the other types of capitalships do not have an economic role it doesn't care which type (battleship, carrier) they are.

And you are wrong, the AI gladly builds the nonstandard capitalships in several mods without being colony types.

 

 

Further, I advise that the Devs add custom map sharing to Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion.

Reply #2 Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1

And you are wrong, the AI gladly builds the nonstandard capitalships in several mods without being colony types.

My eyes don't lie.  I have Dreads from Maelstrom in my mod and the AI flat out refuses to build them (have been through NUMEROUS game sessions and trials to check out why).  It's not a fleet supply issue (already checked that route).

I wondered why the maelstrom mod maker set them up to be spawned vs. built, I know why now.

Reply #3 Top

Quoting XATHOS, reply 2
My eyes don't lie.  I have Dreads from Maelstrom in my mod and the AI flat out refuses to build them (have been through NUMEROUS game sessions and trials to check out why).  It's not a fleet supply issue (already checked that route).

I wondered why the maelstrom mod maker set them up to be spawned vs. built, I know why now.

Maelstrom did it that way to force the AI to have them. As a normal capitalship there is only a 1-6 chance of them being built. I know the AI builds new Capitalships because they will build my Destroyers which are essentially another Battleship class.

 

Reply #4 Top

Quoting XATHOS, reply 2

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1
And you are wrong, the AI gladly builds the nonstandard capitalships in several mods without being colony types.


My eyes don't lie.  I have Dreads from Maelstrom in my mod and the AI flat out refuses to build them (have been through NUMEROUS game sessions and trials to check out why). 

I wondered why the maelstrom mod maker set them up to be spawned vs. built, I know why now.

So you're taking another modders work and trying to put it in your own mod without fully understanding what your dealing with. There are dozens of reason for why the AI won't build a certain ship, if you're starting with a ship that's already very different from Vanilla it could be virtually any reason. All I am saying is that plenty of mods get their AIs to build capitalships that are fairly different from vanilla with research requirements, different fleet supply costs and all sorts of other things correctly, without using the colony roletype. Thus that cannot be the sole reason.

 

 

Further, I advise that the Devs add custom map sharing to Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion.

Reply #5 Top

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 3

Maelstrom did it that way to force the AI to have them. As a normal capitalship there is only a 1-6 chance of them being built.

I tied them to the starbase research of each race.  I don't see why that would be an issue for them to build them.  I've had it in for over 2 months.  Too many times I've seen them late in the game, rebuilding their fleet after a battle, and not producing said ship type.  Same thing goes for the trial sessions I've observed.  They only started to do it AFTER I switched the role type.

I know the AI builds new Capitalships because they will build my Destroyers which are essentially another Battleship class.

They're in there, too. 

Are you planning on producing a different model for the Plague Fortress ship?  Right now, you have it using one of the Plague labs, which looks fine, but I'm just curious.

Reply #6 Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 4

So you're taking another modders work and trying to put it in your own mod without fully understanding what your dealing with.

It's a private compilation mod being used for my LAN group.  I'm not releasing it for the public.
It's an attempt to combine elements from multiple mods into one.  I'm doing it on their behest, not mine (trust me, I'm not doing all this work for my health).   On top of that, all the groups involved know I'm doing this.  Any serious issues that I cannot debug myself, because I can't name a single soul that has tried this before, I contact the respective authors for advice.  It's actually worked out well.  I've had fully playable builds that have been good.  The recent updates on Sins has been causing issues for me, though.  It's also time consuming on my end since I'm the only person doing it.

This is my first whack at doing a large scale project for Sins.  I have experience in working on mods for other games, just not this one.

There are dozens of reason for why the AI won't build a certain ship, if you're starting with a ship that's already very different from Vanilla it could be virtually any reason. All I am saying is that plenty of mods get their AIs to build capitalships that are fairly different from vanilla with research requirements, different fleet supply costs and all sorts of other things correctly, without using the colony roletype.

The same rationale applies towards tracking the cause of minidumps.  All that I know is that I found a solution that isn't conflicting or hurting anything.  Why would I need to change it?

Reply #7 Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1
And you are wrong, the AI gladly builds the nonstandard capitalships in several mods without being colony types.

I can confirm this; the AI in SoGE beta does make Lucrehulk BBs and Providences, even though the Lucrehulk DCS is a colony capital.

 

Further, I advise that the Devs add custom map sharing to Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting XATHOS, reply 5
Are you planning on producing a different model for the Plague Fortress ship?  Right now, you have it using one of the Plague labs, which looks fine, but I'm just curious.

I never released that as a playable ship and have hence backed off of it for various reasons.

Reply #9 Top

Quoting Lavo_2, reply 7

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1And you are wrong, the AI gladly builds the nonstandard capitalships in several mods without being colony types.
I can confirm this; the AI in SoGE beta does make Lucrehulk BBs and Providences, even though the Lucrehulk DCS is a colony capital.

I never once said that they wouldn't, I made this post after I had it working on my side.  I'm just venting on my issues.

 

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 8

Quoting XATHOS, reply 5Are you planning on producing a different model for the Plague Fortress ship?  Right now, you have it using one of the Plague labs, which looks fine, but I'm just curious.
I never released that as a playable ship and have hence backed off of it for various reasons.

What was the main reason?

Reply #10 Top

Quoting XATHOS, reply 6
It's a private compilation mod being used for my LAN group. I'm not releasing it for the public.
It's an attempt to combine elements from multiple mods into one. I'm doing it on their behest, not mine (trust me, I'm not doing all this work for my health). On top of that, all the groups involved know I'm doing this. Any serious issues that I cannot debug myself, because I can't name a single soul that has tried this before, I contact the respective authors for advice. It's actually worked out well,so far. I've had full playable builds that have been good. The recent updates on Sins has been causing issues for me, though. It's also time consuming on my end since I'm the only person doing it.

This is my first whack at doing a large scale project for Sins. I have experience in working on mods for other games, just not this one.

I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything, I'm just saying you maybe out of your league with what you're trying to do, as you don't seem to really understand what the other modders were doing. I've always been of the point of view that you start with learning the basics off your own mods to the vanilla game before doing major changes to someone else's mod. IMO if you can't do what they've done if you had enough time, you probably shouldn't do it.

Of course I realize that might be a time commitment you don't have, but don't be surprised if you find a lot more things that might require "venting". ;)

Quoting XATHOS, reply 6
The same rationale applies towards tracking the cause of minidumps. All that I know is that I found a solution that isn't conflicting or hurting anything. Why would I need to change it?

No reason at all, but in your OP you were making a claim that is simply incorrect. In case someone else sees this post we don't want them thinking that they have to make capitalships colony types for the AI to use them.

That said, there might be some secondary problems with using the colony method. If these dreadnaughts really don't have a colonize ability despite the AI thinking it does, the AI may not build colony frigates or the actual colony cap because it already thinks it has one, thus preventing it from expanding.

 

 

Further, I advise that the Devs add custom map sharing to Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 10

I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything, I'm just saying you maybe out of your league with what you're trying to do, as you don't seem to really understand what the other modders were doing. I've always been of the point of view that you start with learning the basics off your own mods to the vanilla game before doing major changes to someone else's mod. IMO if you can't do what they've done if you had enough time, you probably shouldn't do it.

Of course I realize that might be a time commitment you don't have, but don't be surprised if you find a lot more things that might require "venting".

I spent half a year hammering out DS into the way my LAN group wanted it.  I'm fine.  If I had no playable builds or progress to show for my efforts, then, I wouldn't be bothering.  You speak to me as if I 100% don't know what I'm doing and haven't accomplished jack shit, while I have.  I have 7 fully functional factions in this mod.  Most of the work I'm doing now is balancing.

The only skill set I lack in is modeling.  I'll be dabbling into that later on.  Once the side project is done, I'm comfortable with modeling, I'll start pumping out original work.

That said, there might be some secondary problems with using the colony method. If these dreadnaughts really don't have a colonize ability despite the AI thinking it does, the AI may not build colony frigates or the actual colony cap because it already thinks it has one, thus preventing it from expanding.
It has yet to.  If out of anything, they're building closer to the way humans do.  People usually spend their freebie cap slot on the most expensive one that is feasible (frigates usually fill out any other missing roles).  I've seen zero issues with colonizing.  They expand at the same rate as before. 

I have no doubt there's other methods, but this seemed to work just fine.  If there is a problem using this method, I'll make sure to mention it.

Oh, and thanks for answering the question, even though, you have zero faith in my abilities. :vulcan:

Reply #12 Top

Quoting XATHOS, reply 11
You speak to me as if I 100% don't know what I'm doing and haven't accomplished jack shit, while I have

Okay, fair enough, I did mean to put "I apologize if I'm underestimating your abilities" in my post but it seems that got delete when I was rewriting it. Its just a lot of people tend to try and do what you're doing with absolutely no modding experience whatsoever, and I had no way of knowing if you were any different.

Quoting XATHOS, reply 11
Oh, and thanks for answering the question, even though, you have zero faith in my abilities.

I'm helpful, just a cynic, that's all. ;)

 

 

Further, I advise that the Devs add custom map sharing to Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion.

Reply #13 Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 12

Okay, fair enough, I did mean to put "I apologize if I'm underestimating your abilities" in my post but it seems that got delete when I was rewriting it. Its just a lot of people tend to try and do what you're doing with absolutely no modding experience whatsoever, and I had no way of knowing if you were any different.

Here's a little nugget for yah: I've been modding Stardock products since as far back as Stellar Frontier (hence, my join date for the board) in high school.  Those were good times.