DerekPaxton DerekPaxton

Spell design Submissions

Spell design Submissions

 

Thank you to everyone who submitted ideas for the spell contest.  We are trying to cut down to our favorite five, but before we post the finalists I wanted to take a minute to go over a few of my favorites and what I liked about them.

Shadow World by unacomn

This spell opens up a rift to a shadow plane from which creatures of shadow will randomly spawn on the map for the duration of the spell's upkeep. These shadow creatures will attack anything in their way except for the units and cities of the caster.  If the upkeep is broken, the rift closes but the shadows remain and will attack anything with no exception.

This would be a very costly spell to cast. I can't give a number since you're changing the way spells work. It would be I guess a level 7 spell.   As for the shadow creatures themselves, I would put them at a comparable power level to a Fire Giant, but with a high dodge factor, since they're made of shadow mostly, and a weakness against things that produce light, like fire and lightning.  I'm also thinking that if the spell lasts longer than 10 rounds, a stronger variant of shadow, like a Shadow Beast, could spawn, maybe one who has no allegiance regardless of who cast the spell.

 

I like the concept of a spell that isn’t under the direct control of the caster.  Creature spawn and attack that may provide for a good source of xp, weaken an enemy army, or turn the tide of a battle.  Cats it to get the AI to retreat from yours lands and return home to stop the creatures that are spawning there, or use it to liven up a map that you want more chaos on.

Mmmmmm…. chaos.

Blood Curse by NuclearNeumann

The Wizard King Xarn stands alone on a battlefield, surrounded by the corpses of a dozen slain enemies, with many more charging at him from all directions. As he strikes down a soldier with his blade, one of his assailants impales him on a heavy pike. As the razor sharp tip of the weapon connects with the wizards skin, a fountain of blood erupts. In that very moment, a young lad in the city of Oakford collapses in a crowded street, dead, without any wound or sign of sickness. 'It's the King's curse!', somebody wails. Soon, the people of Oakford are huddled together in the temple, almost insane with fear. The wizard - miraculously unharmed - fells the pikemen who struck him with a lightning spell.

Mechanically, this costly high-level enchantment links the life force of the caster to the inhabitants of one of his cities. The caster gains 2 HP for each inhabitant of the selected city, but for every 2 HP he loses, one of them dies, reducing the population and effectiveness of the city.

I love the concept of spells that use existing resource in interesting ways.  This combines a very dark flavor with a cool mechanic that may work for or against the caster (hit points can always be healed, but population is a bit harder to get).

Rift Shard by MadMagnus

This spell is cast on an existing elemental shard. The shard does not have to be under the caster's control (or maybe it does? Balance check!). This is a high tier spell.

The caster shatters the shard with magic through the center and creates a magic rift. All benefits of controlling the shard are lost. The rift created summons forward an elemental every four (or weaker elementals every two turns?) turns as long as the spell is maintained (low maintenance at first, increases with every elemental created). Once canceled, the rift is destroyed and the resource is lost. The elementals created are the same element as the shard that was used.

There is no limit to the number of elementals this spell creates and the rising maintenance cost must be monitored. This can deny resources, make less useful shards useful, and force decisions on the casting player on when, what, and how long.

This is a cool idea because it allows the player to trade a long term benefit (a shard) for a short term dramatic impact.  This may need to be only shards under the players control to be balanced, otherwise it becomes and easy way to kill an opponents spellcasting ability.

Pariden’s Fury by G30ffnet

This tactical spell would start out dealing medium to low direct non-elemental damage to a single target. At first the cost should seem somewhat mana inefficient. Say 5 damage for 5 mana. It should also have a relatively small tactical range, say 3-4 tiles.

With each type of shard the player controls, the spell would deal extra damage of the corresponding elemental type. Ex: With a fire shard the spell would deal 5 non-elemental and 3 fire. Fire & earth shards would be 5+3f+3e. 

Thus the spell would grow in power as you collected the different shards. Additional shards of the same type could either increase the efficiency of the spell damage and/or add different elemental effects.

Fire Shard: Damage over time
Water Shard: Decrease attack hit percentage
Wind Shard: Movement range reduced
Earth Shard: Target pushed back several tiles.

I like this as a good general spell that changes as the player conquers new resources.  Matching the name with Pariden is also nice as it gives a bit of interesting world flavor with a unique effect.

Chaotic Shard by Jharii

This mid to high level spell transforms the target shard into a random shard of the four elements. Any upgrades that are built upon the shard are destroyed.

This is an interesting utility spell and fixes some design issues (what to do when you start with a shard that you don’t like).  Although the spell will need to be costed fairly significantly, we don’t want the starting shard to not impact the playstyle at all (or have players use the same type of magic everytime).

Pestilence by Thiosk

Afflicts a swath of land with pestilence. Afflicted tiles lose productivity; farms, mines, and other special tiles produce resources at one half their rate. Additionally, units speed on afflicted tiles is reduced to 1.  Pestilence covers a 3x3 region after cast, each turn one tile of land is healed. The center tile will always be the last tile to uncover.

Strategic use: can be used both to restrict the movement of enemy units, and to negatively influence their productivity.

I like the thought of cursing an opponent’s land.  We had seen variations of this spell before, but what I like most about this implementation is the large area of effect and the gradual dwindling of the effect.

Subjugate Wizard by Emelen

Target hero becomes a wizard of equal power to the caster. Both the caster and the target now consume double mana.

Note: The specific capability and cost of this spell entirely depends on how mana and spell power is handled in future patches. This will, however, allow a weak or otherwise less useful heir to become a powerful asset at an appropriate cost. For balancing, it may be more fair that the target unit consumes triple mana, if all mana is shared.

This reminds me of the oath between Galor and Calid in Destiny’s Embers.  It’s an interesting way for a a player to take his sovereign’s spell power out into the field without risking his sovereign.

Shadow Assassins by angel_entropy

By calling on less honorable forces, your ruler may employ the services of shades who were formerly the world's greatest assassins.

Your spell caster targets an enemy unit anywhere that is visible. Only the targeted unit goes into battle with some shadow assassins (depending on spell level/shard etc).  Shadow assassins cannot kill if they are beaten however they give the targeted unit a large - modifier to their stats.

Also, summoning shadow assassins cannot alert the enemy target on who cast the spell.

I like the assassin idea of being able to target a specific unit in an enemy army.  I'm not sure if this mechanic is best as a spell or as a champion special ability, but either way it would be fun.

Forbidden Bargin by csyang

Using an ancient forbidden ritual, your sovereign absorbs the soul of a willing/unwilling blood relative to permanently increase his personal attributes by X% of the sacrifice's attributes. All other sovereigns will know of this forbidden spell being cast (they are sensitive to magic)

Requirements:
0 mana cost
target must be next to or same square
ends turn of sovereign unit

Effects:
Gain X% of the sacrifice's ability (50% 1st cast, 45% 2nd cast, and so on until minimum of 10%)
Maximum diplomacy penalty for nations belonging to Race of Men
Chance that remaining family members will revolt (each family member rolls chance of 20% 1st cast, 30% 2nd cast, and so on until maximum of 80%)

So evil.  Not many games allow the player to give birth to future generations, even fewer allow you to sacrifice them for your own good.  Though it does make me worry about csyang's sanity that he even considered such a spell.

Nurture thy Beloved by Tiavals

This spell exist for one purpose only: To strengthen your progeny. It can only be cast while the children of the Channeler are in the growing-up stages, before they are moving characters in the game. 

As you cast the spell, it begins to draw upon the magic shards controlled by you and imbues your descendent by their power.

Each shard offers a different powerboost to the child. Air increases movement, Fire increases Attack, Water increases Defence, and such. There may be more than one boost, in that the spell offers minor boosts to each stat, with certain stats(that are in conjunction with the shards you possess) rising more than the others.

The upkeep of the spell should be very high, each turn draining a massive amount of mana, and giving relavitely minor advantages(say 1 or 0.5 points to a stat for each shard). The point is, that while the child grows, his/her power grows as well, slowly. As the years pass, more and more essence is channeled within, and thus the child becomes stronger.

In a sense, this might make the children of the Channeler more valuable.

As for flavor text:

The great Channeler could feel the power of the shards flowing into the child. Power great enough to summon beasts from beyond, yet this power was not meant to bring forth, but to imbue. The Strength of Earth, the Fleetness of Air, the Savagery of Fire. All this would the child have, and more. It was not cheap. A great deal of time and power were required. With this investment, the child would become a mighty champion, far greater than the common man. Smiling, the Channeler thought: Some day, perhaps even as strong as the caster of the spell...

This actually goes well with forbidden bargin, giving you two ways to deal with children.  Though this way makes me worry less about Tiavals morality.

 

Thanks again to everyone who submitted ideas.  We will be reducing to our favorite 5 by Thursday and opening up the voting so you can us which one you like best.

134,254 views 64 replies
Reply #51 Top

These are all great! I would love to see the addition of more spell books too. I miss 'lycanthropes' from old MoM, or even Black Channels (or Chaos Channels), and really feel like my citizens need to be tortured and warped through spells like these :) Tactical summons (Fire Elemental) were cool too. I do like how you can discover the spell books of old mages as tier 3 adventure spot rewards (although I can't seem to find the related spells in my book, hmmm), and think more 'discovery only, 2 spell books' should be available through adventurre tech, and only after a battle. I'd also like to see the necromancy and illusion spellbooks added. That is my Christmas wishlist. Thank you Santa!

Reply #52 Top
I was running the spell design finalists by the programmers (who loved all the ideas and think we should put them all in). They were commenting at how cool and creative they are, and asking if they were all this good. After having red 330 spell submissions I said that no, there were spell ides that were bad nd there were spell ides that were bd, but funny to red. My favorite example of the latter was the Summon Dinosaur spell, whose text was simply "summons a dinosaur!". I told the team bout it and we laughed. Then after a minute Jesse (code critter) said "that would be a really cool spell". We all laughed again and I said that there was no way we were putting a summon dinosaur spell in the game. We continued talking for a few minutes while Jesse pondered and eventually added "it would pretty esy to make a dragon into a dinosaur". Jesse just left me a facebook message saying that he still thinks we should add the summon Finland spell (for some reason the PDA I'm typing this on is translating "dinosaur" as "finland", which I'm sure Jesse would also think is a cool spell idea. So thank you to whoever suggested that spell, we got a lot of laughs out of it.
Reply #53 Top

Quoting Derek, reply 52
I was running the spell design finalists by the programmers (who loved all the ideas and think we should put them all in). They were commenting at how cool and creative they are, and asking if they were all this good. After having red 330 spell submissions I said that no, there were spell ides that were bad nd there were spell ides that were bd, but funny to red. My favorite example of the latter was the Summon Dinosaur spell, whose text was simply "summons a dinosaur!". I told the team bout it and we laughed. Then after a minute Jesse (code critter) said "that would be a really cool spell". We all laughed again and I said that there was no way we were putting a summon dinosaur spell in the game. We continued talking for a few minutes while Jesse pondered and eventually added "it would pretty esy to make a dragon into a dinosaur". Jesse just left me a facebook message saying that he still thinks we should add the summon Finland spell (for some reason the PDA I'm typing this on is translating "dinosaur" as "finland", which I'm sure Jesse would also think is a cool spell idea. So thank you to whoever suggested that spell, we got a lot of laughs out of it.
End of Derek's quote

Lol. This is one of the reasons I love SD. That being said, I'm not sure I'm crazy about dinosaurs in this game.

Reply #54 Top

Quoting LightofAbraxas, reply 53

Lol. This is one of the reasons I love SD. That being said, I'm not sure I'm crazy about dinosaurs in this game.
End of LightofAbraxas's quote

You should read "Dead Beat" by Jim Butcher and see if that changes your mind :grin:

Reply #55 Top

OMG. I'm having hilarious images of a wizard with the ability to Summon Finland at will. The entire landmass.

Reply #56 Top

Quoting Teslacrashed, reply 55
OMG. I'm having hilarious images of a wizard with the ability to Summon Finland at will. The entire landmass.
End of Teslacrashed's quote

That's the thing with magic. You've got to know it's still here, all around us, or it just stays invisible for you.

- Charles de Lint

-.-

Reply #57 Top

I would love a spell that raises the dead on the battle field to join you...

Reply #58 Top

Quoting Rune_74, reply 57
I would love a spell that raises the dead on the battle field to join you...
End of Rune_74's quote

There are no undead in Elemental.  Our challenge is to create new interesting creatures and archetypes without dipping into typical fantasy tropes.  I love that Elemental doesn't have skeletons, elves and dwarves.  But I understand when people ask for them, they want flavor, they want a wide variety of allies and enemies.  And we want to provide it, but we want to do it in a new way.  We want Elemental to be a new and unique world.  And honestly Brad has done a great job of setting up that world, but we just need to get all that information into the game.  So we have work to do.

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Reply #59 Top

Quoting Derek, reply 58

There are no undead in Elemental.  Our challenge is to create new interesting creatures and archetypes without dipping into typical fantasy tropes.  I love that Elemental doesn't have skeletons, elves and dwarves.  But I understand when people ask for them, they want flavor, they want a wide variety of allies and enemies.  And we want to provide it, but we want to do it in a new way.  We want Elemental to be a new and unique world.  And honestly Brad has done a great job of setting up that world, but we just need to get all that information into the game.  So we have work to do.
End of Derek's quote

The problem Elemental has regarding faction diversity is two-fold.

First problem is the race mechanics within the game where there is not much beyond paper-dolling the same model for all factions. From what you are saying it sounds like this will be looked at which is heartening.

But the second problem is the lore running under the game. You are defending the lore but I must say that I respectfully disagree that the lore in Elemental has much going for it. Perhaps there is some grand vision that we haven't been exposed to yet and that somehow there is a mountain of racial personality yet to be put into the game in the future that hasn't been placed yet, like Kingdom and Empire factions actually galvanising against each other as a very small example. But I doubt this because Brad defended the game saying it was finished at launch.

Perhaps it is just that the interpretation of the lore in Elemental has been handled poorly up until now. If that's the case then I'll try not to pre-judge yet. But from where I'm sitting the whole premise behind the lore in Elemental seems extremely shallow and limiting.

Why is it that people look to the old 'tried and true' races of undead, elves, goblins, orcs, etc? The reason is that these fantasy races have been part of our myths, legends and cultures for millennia and so they are part of our psyche. We know instinctively what they represent. Not because of other games - but because of our cultural stories that have been around for ages.

I think it is a mistake to by-pass this cultural resource as it gives immediate reference. Even Tolkein didn't truly invent the lore in Lord of the Rings. He borrowed heavily from Norse legends and myths. The psychologist Carl Jung wrote about the important role our myths and legends play in our cultural instincts so moving away from this is not very wise for a game based on fantasy.

I just hope that the mod tools will allow the community to rename, remodel and rehash the races so we end up with what we want in the end because I don't have the same faith you do in the depth of the lore in Elemental.

Elemental is starting to show a lot of potential now but this aspect is a big one. Get it wrong or making it weak will condemn the game.

Reply #60 Top

Quoting Das123, reply 59
Why is it that people look to the old 'tried and true' races of undead, elves, goblins, orcs, etc? The reason is that these fantasy races have been part of our myths, legends and cultures for millennia and so they are part of our psyche.
End of Das123's quote
It would be like saying that angels have been always depicted with wings (artists from certain period trying to enhance the idea of angels being from a superior place) or that the devil (or whichever name you choose to name it) has always been depicted offering deals for people's souls (blame Faust for this) or with goat hooves and horns (Catholic Church, I'm looking at you). Do you know what "Hell" was refering to originally? Or orcus?

People (the mass of it) doesn't want the elves that belong to faery land and get hurt by the slightlest touch of iron. The want their Legolas or their Drizzt. They don't want the old good orcus or the beings come from hell, the want their green/grey warrior beasts. They don't want a Hell where simply souls go but a place of damnation and demons (and succubus so the male population is happy). They want what they have been fed by "media of the time" (even if it's a twisted and nothing to do with the original version).

A simple look to any D&D monster compendium should show anyone how diverse the "monsters" can be and how there is always room for new things.

Just because Star Trek and Star Wars are popular and in most of people's mind (those who know at least), shouldn't make all the new scifi be forced to be like them. Or to have "aliens" like Bug(Starship Troopers)/Alien(Alien)/Tyranid(Warhammer 40K)/Zerg(Starcraft) as enemies.

The only real problem is implementation. People will like or hate the Lore no matter how it is. That cannot be avoided. But people can only appreciate it (to later love or hate it) if it's properly implemented.

Plus someone people suppose that Stardock is incapable of properly implementing their own lore (fair point) but suppose that they would have no trouble implementing lore that include elves and orcs. RPG world, people. Lore is here to stay.

Reply #61 Top

I agree with you, Wintersong. In no way was I wanting to be a purist about the races. An example would be looking at how the races reflect the lore in the games Dominions 3, Fall from Heaven, and modded Age of Wonders.

In Dominions each race only reflects the lore of itself without reference to any game-world restrictions and so you have any number of races from different cultures playing on the same map. This 'works' because there is still personality within each race and there is conformity to its own lore so each race needs to be played differently to make use of the unique strengths.

Fall from Heaven also has very distinct races with different lore. The races in FFH2 do interact with the game-world in unique ways but the game-world lore isn't at all restrictive. The races in Fall from Heaven are still largely recognisable and so still borrow from our cultural heritage. The thing here is that the races (and leaders) are corrupted versions of races we know so they are interesting and immersive to play.

Modded Age of Wonders is interesting because the unique game-world races (Shadow races etc) have been largely ditched by the community in favour of traditional races making the game heaps better to play. Here you do find your archetypical fantasy races and it makes the game so easy to understand and play because of it.

In Elemental the barren game-world dictates and restricts so much about the game. The races are vaguely along the lines of traditional races but have no individual distinction. No new races can be introduced because of the history the game is built around. Even the names of the races are confusing. In Elemental we have the fallen race of magma-skinned people called the Quendar, yet in Tolkein's Middle Earth Quendi is the name for the elven races.

Reply #62 Top

Gonna chime in here.

I respect Brad's desire to have an original fantasy world. Any world creator wants that.

And while I can understand not wanting Elves and Dwarves....the setting IS generic. The canon races, lore, magic, EVERYTHING....is generic. There are already Demons, Dragons, Giant Fantasy Spiders, Ogres, things that look like Ogres and Trolls...

Are undead really where Stardock wants to draw the line in the sand? Because it seems pretty arbitrary, given how Brad has basically picked and chosen the things he wants to be part of Elemental lore. Demons? Check. Undead? TOO GENERIC!

Sorry if that seems harsh, but I've heard this rationale before about Elemental and it boggles me. I have no undying love of the setting. It's as generic as vanilla ice cream in most places. Props for trying to stay true to his own vision.....but I think it needs to be asked at what point "staying true to his own vision" is making for a flavorless game that people have to MAKE themselves get attached to.

Undead ain't going to change that, I have no delusions about that. But if Brad and Stardock have been willing to admit before that they didn't have the best answers and the best ideas going forward.....maybe they need to admit that here too.

Reply #63 Top

Quoting Derek, reply 58



Quoting Rune_74,
reply 57
I would love a spell that raises the dead on the battle field to join you...


There are no undead in Elemental.  Our challenge is to create new interesting creatures and archetypes without dipping into typical fantasy tropes.  I love that Elemental doesn't have skeletons, elves and dwarves.  But I understand when people ask for them, they want flavor, they want a wide variety of allies and enemies.  And we want to provide it, but we want to do it in a new way.  We want Elemental to be a new and unique world.  And honestly Brad has done a great job of setting up that world, but we just need to get all that information into the game.  So we have work to do.
End of Derek's quote

There are too undead in Elemental, occasionally I get a warning about some "undead" dragon roaming the country side being animated by dark magics. I have never seen it though.