[Community Effort] Additions/Changes for next patch

from Sins Forums

I've spent countless hours pouring over all of the modifiers for this game in an effort to create some unique gameplay elements for my mod, but, as creative and open-minded as I've gotten, there are just some small bits of coding missing that would make life so much easier.

For instance, I've been trying to figure out how to give a single weapon type an antimatter cost and the ability to be turned on and off (while all other weapons on the ship remain active).  The antimatter cost is simple, but being able to switch a weapon off at will to conserve antimatter is another matter entirely.  This could easily be done if there were modifiers that allowed me to adjust the range of physical and energy weapons separately, rather than ALL weapons together, but I certainly wouldn't say no to a firing constraint linked to an ability either.  

I have a couple of other ideas for extensions of current modifiers that I think would make the game even more modder-friendly and will most likely be simple to add into another patch (assuming it's coming).  My question is how and to whom do I propose the ideas in a way that will help them be accepted?

Would it be easier if we, as the current community of SoaSE modders, worked to create a list of the most desired adjustments or additions (with the amount being WELL within reason: no more than 4 or 5, for instance)?  That way we could decide what would be the most useful to us once support is finally withdrawn completely from Ironclad.  I'd certainly be willing to organize a project like that; I'm just not sure how to go about bringing it to the developer's attention.

I'll begin the list and make adjustments as people make suggestions and discuss.  I'd like to keep it manageable and realistic, but I also think we should entertain all options. 

 

Abilities/Buffs:

- Weapon-based abilities can use directional banks/orientation just like weapon points.  This would be for unique abilities that aren't meant to be used constantly and function as weapons in terms of directional orientation. 

- Add the Instant Action "SpawnCapitalShip" and/or "SpawnCapitalShipAtTarget".

- Use ship roletypes/statcounttypes as target constraints. 

- Split the entity modifiers "WeaponRange" and "DisableWeapons" so that physical and energy weapons can be affected separately.

- Utilize the secondary mesh option in the entity file by having an ability that can alter a ship's mesh between two different models (as opposed to the permanent alterations that accompany research or starbase upgrades). 


Weapons:

-  Add a firing constraint that allows a weapon to be turned on/off at will through the use of an ability.

 

Squadrons:

- Create an option that auto-docks fighter/bomber squadrons when no enemy is around (intended to save RAM).  OR, simply give us access to the ability files that govern this feature.

 

Constructors:

- Have constructors dock inside a ship factory while not being used (intended to save RAM).

 

Hardcoding

- Once official support of the game has ended, release some or all of the hard-coded scripting so that people in the modding community with the know-how, willingness, and time have the option to make many of these adjustments for themselves.

modding
25,123 views 27 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

I think a community effort would get there attention more where a single person is easily ignored. either way this is a great idea.

 

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

I've begun a list with some ideas belonging to myself and myfist0.  Please add your own suggestions and discuss what the best options might be to request for modding-friendly changes in a possible future patch.

 

 

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

I would quite like to be able to make capital ships and / or modules with an ability rather than have to work around by making a frigate or star base if this is possible. 

 

Edit: Mainly because it is impossible to replicate levelling up in a frigate.

 

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

I totally agree with having a SpawnCapitalShip Instant Action that functions the same as SpawnFrigate.

I would also imagine that making frigates level-able is going to be a huge time issue as far as coding.  What do you think about giving Capital Ships the option to have frigate role types and stat count types?  This might allow someone to transfer all current frigate entity info into a capital ship entity template in order to create frigates with levels.  The only problem that would need to be addressed is whether or not the AI can function without a frigate factory (since it's impossible to place a capital ship entity file under the frigate factory heading in the player___ files.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Mystic, reply 4
I totally agree with having a SpawnCapitalShip Instant Action that functions the same as SpawnFrigate.

I would also imagine that making frigates level-able is going to be a huge time issue as far as coding.  What do you think about giving Capital Ships the option to have frigate role types and stat count types?  This might allow someone to transfer all current frigate entity info into a capital ship entity template in order to create frigates with levels.  The only problem that would need to be addressed is whether or not the AI can function without a frigate factory (since it's impossible to place a capital ship entity file under the frigate factory heading in the player___ files.

Well, you can get different level frigates through abilities (up to 3 levels). It would be nice if there was some extend that to experience or purchasing new levels for a frigate outright.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

I've also thought adding statCountTypes or roleTypes as constraints would be awesome too for modding.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Yeah, I've toyed with the idea of the current frigate "levels".  As far as I can tell, that's only accessible through ability spawnage.  Like you, all I really want is a frigate that can level up to say 3 or 5.  Others might want more, but I'd be happy with that.

The idea for constraints is brilliant!

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

In total agreement with main topic.

If you are looking for a community bug fix patch look no further than The Sins Optimization Project. The TSOP has pretty much turned into the "defacto" bug hunt project of the community. The bugs however are the blatantly obvious ones that have sprouted up over the last 3 years due to the updates. Plus Entrenchment, and Diplomacy.. I probably would have noticed these issues years ago, but i was neck deep in SoA2. Now SoA2 is in capable hands. That free's me to focus on the Iron engine itself, and TSOP. Myfist0, and SivCorp have been a tremendous help with TSOP.

However i cant fix this game by myself, and i cant code at all. So i like the idea of getting the entire community involved.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Thanks for the input Stress.  I've been working on an ability for myfist that will simulate a behavior that automatically docks all fighters when no hostile targets are within the gravity well.  I've got that part of it working perfectly, but there's an issue related to the advent homing mines that I didn't foresee.  It's minor and doesn't have a huge affect on gameplay, but I think I can find a suitable workaround nonetheless.

Myfist and I had discussed making it part of TSOP once I'm finished, whether as a separate minimod or fully incorporating it.  Obviously, having all fighers dock when not in use would remove some of the memory drain, but the changes necessary to make this successful at this point in time might not be to everyone's liking.  Let me know what you think.

 

 

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Major, reply 8

However i cant fix this game by myself, and i cant code at all. So i like the idea of getting the entire community involved.

Unfortunately IC is the only one who can code. We have quite a few computer programs in the community here, both with their careers and as a hobby, yet there is nothing they can do because there are no (editable) Scripts in Sins, just the data files. Granted you can do a lot with this, as the current mods show, but as it is now we are never going to be able to do things like mods in Oblivion and (hopefully) Elemental will be able to do.

As for the Community, well I must admit we are doing more as a group as we ever have in recent memory at least. If anyone hasn't already, please go visit the numerous threads in the strategy section about game balance and the community patch that is in the works.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

I say we get a can opener and pop open all those files.  }:)

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

Agreed.

I've added another possibility for a mesh-related ability.  At the moment, we can alter a mesh through the use of research or starbase upgrades, but those changes are permanent.  I would like to have the option of having a ship shift back and forth between the original mesh and a secondary mesh through the use of an ability.  Personally, this would help me achieve starship separation and recombination much more easily and definitely in simpler form than what I'm currently working on.  I can also see this being used to emulate the unveiling of some type of powerful weapon, or any other occasion where a ship's model might need to change for the use of an ability.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

I agree with this topic totally,   I have installed MS VISUAL basic that will allow me to read dump files and have the sins and sins entrenchment PDB files. However even with those files We as a community can only read the dumps. IC is holding back with another file that I have asked for on many occasions. I forget the name of the file, but I do know that with it will installed will more or less let us re-write the entire game, As well as read the entire dump files. I think with this file being released will help out drastically.

thanks jtaylorpcs

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

Interesting.  I'm positive that type of information won't be released until after they're completely finished supporting the game in official patches.  Even then, I bet getting it is a long shot.

Still, if they'd be willing to hand that over once they're officially done, that would be a HUGE step for those of us with the initiative and the time. 

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting JTAYLORPCS, reply 13
I agree with this topic totally,   I have installed MS VISUAL basic that will allow me to read dump files and have the sins and sins entrenchment PDB files. However even with those files We as a community can only read the dumps. IC is holding back with another file that I have asked for on many occasions. I forget the name of the file, but I do know that with it will installed will more or less let us re-write the entire game, As well as read the entire dump files. I think with this file being released will help out drastically.

thanks jtaylorpcs

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

In any case, something that desperately needs to be added is a toggle for autoattack movement either in the UI or the entity file (like the default autoattack range stuff is already) so that this behavior can be disabled by modders.

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Carbon016, reply 15

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Please try to be a bit more diplomatic in your phrasing, Carbon.  At the very least, I'm interested in knowing why you disagree.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe you're saying you want ships to still have the option of auto-attacking while remaining in place.  I can definitely see the strategic benefit of having an option like this.

 

 

Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top

The diplomacy pact system does not currently support more than 3 races. It would be nice if they would add hooks for additional user defined pact types. Maybe adding in enough for 3 more add-on races and custom pacts.

 

Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 18
The diplomacy pact system does not currently support more than 3 races. It would be nice if they would add hooks for additional user defined pact types. Maybe adding in enough for 3 more add-on races and custom pacts.

 

That does suck. Whats the point of being able to add more races through modding if you cant really add them.

Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top

You can't make for new races o_O. Well my race wasn't being very diplomatic oriented to begin with, so not so much impact on that aspect xD

Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top

I've been meaning to take a look at the entire diplomacy system, since it's going to figure heavily into my mod.  From what I can tell, the only place I've even found a reference to races in regard to diplomacy is the player entity files, and that's just racial relation modifiers.  None of the pact-related research has any mention of specific races.  I'm going to take a look at this over the next few days and see what I can come up with and what other alterations might be appreciated.

As for scouting, I can easily adjust a scouting-related ability to leave behind a probe that can or can't be destroyed.  It would most definitely allow you to see everything that's going on, but I don't know how balanced that would be.  I'll see what else I can think of and let you know.

Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top

Is it possible to make the probe either

  1. Not destroyable. Then it should last a time period
  2. Destroyable. If its possible, not to have it auto attacked in the grav well. Like you cant see it unless your in range. This will make it so you have to set the strike craft on patrols.

What would be great is if the probes could be launched from a military research lab or star base to any planet like the cannon but no damage.

Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top

It's possible for it to be impervious to destruction.  That's a simple bool entity modifier with a time restriction for the finish condition. 

I'm not sure about making it unnoticed.  I'd have to take a look at roletypes and a couple of other things in the entity file.  The only way a player wouldn't see it is if no mainview icons were assigned to the probe (otherwise the icon would be plain as day within the gravity well) in combination with something that doesn't attract ships set to auto-attack.

Launching from a starbase would require an ability slot that isn't available.  However, a military research lab could be given the ability easily enough.  I'm planning on using far-reaching scanning abilities and probes in my mod, so I'll gladly look into all of this.  No promises on a time frame.  If it gets to be a couple of weeks down the road and you haven't heard from me, feel free to remind me, though. 

 

Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top

Scouting -modify the Clairovoyance duration to -1 expiry.  Then your probe can die all it wants.

You can make the Starbase possess abilities that "spawn" ships instead of fighters.

 

Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top

True, you could replace the hangar upgrade with an ability that spawns a single type of frigate, but that would then leave the starbase without an arguably important defense mechanism.

As for scouting, it would be more appropriate in this instance for the Probe ability to have no time limit.  I agree on Clairvoyance being useful for a permanent sensor probe launched from out of the system, however.