Light Frigates Turn Speed

from Sins Forums

I've recently been considering the speed of the light frigate - something that is supposedly it's primary advantage.  In practice, most battles become clumps after the first few seconds and then most movement is actually turning, at which the LF has no perceivable advantage over other frigates.  Unless your enemy starts running and you're pursuing, your move speed will mean quite little throughout the battle.

So I started to think, what if the LF was also given a superior turn rate?  It would certainly give them a mobility edge in battle.  They'd be able to very quickly organize and focus fire a single target, something that traditionally only LRF and strike craft do very well.  It would also bring up a wealth of micromanagement possibilites.  One that came to mind quickly was "monkey in the middle".  Suppose a line of LRF are facing my LF.  I could command my LF to move past the LRF.  The LRF now need to turn around to shoot me, but because LF turn faster I'll be facing him before he's facing me.  Once he fully turns around, I just run past him again and repeat the process.  Of course, I can think of more than a few responses off the top of my head to counter this, but the bottom line is that I think maneuvers like these could add a lot to strategy in the game.

 

Opinions vary on the LF.  Some people think they're underpowered, others think they're just a little on the weak side, and a few think they're just fine as is.  I think a turn speed advantage might be one of the best ways to give them a subtle yet practical buff.  In a straight shootout it wouldn't mean a lot, but it would make them a more interesting and tactical unit by opening up new applications and making them slightly better at what they already should be good at.

What do people think about this?

 

35,782 views 14 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Ah that takes me back.. I wrote a post in the Sins beta arguing that light frigates should be a bit more agile :) So yeah, you won't hear disagreement from me.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Sounds like an interesting idea. It would also be nice when LFs are made into a fleet that they would all turn at the same time like a school of fish. Currently they all follow the lead frigates old way point path which slows their turning down even more.

Groupy 2 - Organize multiple applications into grouped tabs on your Windows desktop
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Yeah I agree with this also.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

I thought LF's did turn a bit faster?  I know carriers turn slow as molasses when they are not moving...I kind of thought turn speed was tied to general acceleration speed?  Maybe one of the modders can clear it up, they know the guts of the game pretty well.

And it is a pretty well known micro tactic to move your targetted ships past the enemy formation to turn them and make them waste time while the rest of your ships keep shooting.  LF's would have to be damn fast to fly around LRM's and never give them a chance to shoot.  Of course, Illuminator side beams will still be killin while you fly past.

Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top

i agree with this... and i also agree with the illum side beams thing... the illum can fire behind itself cant it? that might negate the tactic... though if the devs gave it a 40 degree blindspot behind itself it could be a good tactic

anyway, my two thumbs up for this

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

I thought LF's did turn a bit faster?

I don't know the specific implementation or stats, but just going off of experience any advantage the LF may have isn't noticable or usable in a practical sense.

 

And it is a pretty well known micro tactic to move your targetted ships past the enemy formation to turn them and make them waste time while the rest of your ships keep shooting.  LF's would have to be damn fast to fly around LRM's and never give them a chance to shoot.  Of course, Illuminator side beams will still be killin while you fly past.

Totally agree with you on all counts.  Obviously that example wouldn't apply to illuminators, and you'd have to have very good timing to pull it off without a scratch.  I specifically chose an example that was based on something relatively well known to Sins players.

 

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

I agree, LFs need turn rate increase, but mainly because that would allow them to hunt fleeing carriers better.

PS. BTW turning speeds. A turn rate increase should also be implemented to the Distort Gravity ability of Marauder IMO. 60% of the ability's duration expires before your fleet turns and starts accelerating (and you can't fire it later, because ordering your fleet to move backwards causes it to spread over half of the gravwell). Also, maneuvering before phase jump (to make use of the departure range decrease) takes a lot of time and usually means that your fleet never makes it before Distort Grav wears off.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

The marauder could certainly use the buff, so I totally agree with you.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Lf should also accelerate and stop faster as they overshoot slower ships now.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting MindsEye, reply 10
Lf should also accelerate and stop faster as they overshoot slower ships now.

Actually, I like it when they overshoot ships when they attack, but then again, all of my ships are using the fighter attack style, they bound to over shoot anyways

Well, I think while we are on the topic of movement, I might suggest that ships move at the speed of the slowest ships, I mean, most (I mean all) RTS games, uints all move at the speed of the slowest unit, regardless of range of the weapons, the only time when they move at different speed is when they are in battle...

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting N3rull, reply 8
I agree, LFs need turn rate increase, but mainly because that would allow them to hunt fleeing carriers better.

PS. BTW turning speeds. A turn rate increase should also be implemented to the Distort Gravity ability of Marauder IMO. 60% of the ability's duration expires before your fleet turns and starts accelerating (and you can't fire it later, because ordering your fleet to move backwards causes it to spread over half of the gravwell). Also, maneuvering before phase jump (to make use of the departure range decrease) takes a lot of time and usually means that your fleet never makes it before Distort Grav wears off.

I like the idea immensely. In fact, there are several places in Sins where such turnrate boosts could result in an interesting and appropriate boost.

Unfortunately, without asking Ironclad to open up another entityModifier, it's not possible in current sins - even the TEC capitalship turnrate is a specific, research-only modifier. :(

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

i agree........................... :cylon: :cylon: :cylon:

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

This actually did happen in a patch last year.