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A few random thoughts on Beta 2D

A few random thoughts on Beta 2D

Beta 2D is the last of the Beta 2 builds which were designed to test connectivity.  Over the weekend we spent a lot of time working on the connectivity server – the “magical” feature that Demigod makes use of to make connectivity a lot better and easier than what has been seen in typical RTS.

The release of Beta 2D showed a killer bug in the Impulse Reactor back end that caused it to just fail in setting up connections after a couple hours.  That got fixed (we hope) on Sunday night. We’ll know more soon.

That leads us to dealing with the remaining biggest challenge with regards to connectivity: The peer connectivity.  Right now, it only takes ONE person who can’t be connected to in a given game to cause the infinite “connecting” dialog to come up.

We have to do two things still:

1) We need to improve this substantially.  Beta 2D increases the likelyhood of success to around 80% (needs to be 99% by ship date).  Ironically, my work machine is one of the machines that can’t easily be connected to when it’s hosting.

2) We need a better way to eject players who can’t connect so they don’t hold up everyone else.

But at this point, we’re at a stage where we can start debugging that and move to Beta 3 which has the tournament code and we can really get into the balance part of the game.

We’ve learned a lot from this beta.  One of the things we’ve learned is that we really need to do a better job conditioning beta testers that the Demigod betas are just that – BETAS. They aren’t marketing experiments.  We’ve had lots of posts complaining that the game is (wait for it) “buggy”.  Or comparing the game’s balance or features to some shipping game.

Having shipped the “Strategy Game of the Year” for the past 2 consecutive years (GalCiv II and Sins of a Solar Empire) I would hope that we would get cut some slack that we know something of what we’re doing but then again, it is the Internet. :)

Here’s an interesting factoid that Sins of a Solar Empire players can tell you:

The economic model in Sins of a Solar Empire didn’t get its final version until GAMMA (that’s after the betas).  Before Gamma 3, asteroids and such ran out of resources (metal and crystal) eventually.  Imagine how different Sins of a Solar Empire would be. There also wasn’t an “unfair” difficulty level in Sins until the gammas.

With Beta 3, we get to start finally getting into the actual balance and game play a lot more.  Obviously, the game isn’t going to radically change in terms of scope. It’s not going to become a first person shooter.

So here are a few things that we’re looking at as a sample:

image

MY  personal opinions:

  • Currencies should increase gold income by a % not a raw amount.
    • Currency I: Increases gold income by 20%
      • Cost increased to $2000
    • Currency II: Increases gold income by 40%
      • Cost increases to $4000
    • Currency III: Increases gold income by 60%
      • Cost increased to $6000
  • Experience I
    • Experience I: increases XP generation by 10%
    • Experience II: increase XP generation by 20%
    • Add: Experience III at level 5: Increases XP generation by 30%
      • Cost $2400
    • Experience IV at level 6: Increases XP generation by 40%
  • Graveyard
    • Graveyard I moved to war rank 1. Lowers Death Penalty by 10%. Cost 600
    • Graveyard II moved to war rank 3. Lowers death penalty by 20%. Cost 1800
    • Graveyard III. Lowers death penalty by 40%.
  • Priests moved to war rank 3.
  • Angels should be moved to war rank 10, made a lot tougher, should only be 1 of them.
  • Catapultasuri should be moved to war rank 5. Should only be 2 of them but tougher (more HP).
  • Giants should be moved to war rank 7.
  • Requested new item: Totem of Cancelation: (replaces totem of revelation if necessary)
    • Cost: 200
    • Wipes out any mines or similar things in an area when placed.
  • Requested new item: Scroll of Health
    • Cost: 1000
    • Casting time: INSTANT
    • Restores 1000 health
  • Restorative scroll should eliminate Regulus tracking device
  • Requested new item: Gauntlets of Demolition
  • Requested new item: Scroll of Demolition
    • Does 2000 damage to a structure
    • Cost $2000
  • Requested new item: Scroll of Invincibility
    • Unit is invincible for 3 seconds
    • Instant cast time
    • Cost: 200
  • Eliminate:
    • Combat health potion
    • Combat mana potion
    • Rejuvenation Elixir (the cheap one)
  • Armor: Need to be careful about how much armor we give players so that they don’t become invincible.

Demigods

Assassins

  • The rook moves far too fast by default. He’s a walking castle! Super tough but super slow.

Generals

  • Fewer minions that are a lot tougher.
  • 1st level minions can only have 2 of with you.
  • 2nd level minions can only have 4 of them with you.
  • 3rd level minions can have 4 of them with you.
  • Generals should do less damage in battle. (the Oak, for instance, starts out doing like 150 damage per second).

Misc.

  • Edge scroll should be on by default
  • Multplayer is set to a threshold of 200ms. Can we increase this to 350ms?
  • Is the game clock a real clock or one based on performance?
  • Still need a fancier progress bar displayed when taking a flag
  • Amount spent in upgrades should be displayed in the final game score
  • # of upgrades paid for should be displayed in the in-game score screen
  • Damage done by the general’s minions is not displayed
  • The voice acting on Regulus could use some work. The original Regulus voice was much better.
  • War score and war rank need to be synched up so that war rank is simply war score / 1000.

image

Those are just my personal thoughts.  The next step is that we talk it over and decide what makes the most sense to do.

51,475 views 64 replies
Reply #51 Top

The graphics have been improved yes, but they were very good anyways, you should take alook at some of the supcom screenies. But supcom also has a tendency to have some lag near the end of games, not much, mostly graphical and system lag, not net lag. Of course these games are 6 players playing on a map the size of the hawain islands with nukes, and hundreads if not thousands of units.

Reply #52 Top

actually now that i recall i have supcom just haven't played it in forever...(I forgot what supcom stood for, lol)

the graphics are completely different, these are more detailed which on one hand is nice, but in the other hand like i said, I'd love to see more grunts on the field, plain and simple

Reply #53 Top

Generals

* Fewer minions that are a lot tougher.
* 1st level minions can only have 2 of with you.
* 2nd level minions can only have 4 of them with you.
* 3rd level minions can have 4 of them with you.
* Generals should do less damage in battle. (the Oak, for instance, starts out doing like 150 damage per second).
End of quote

I like these changes (even if the generals should be renamed captains, their army mophing into a squadron). But something it really miss for general is spreading his army : if the minions could capture flags on the maps, an ennemy assassin would have to choose between killing the general with his light guard or destroying the main forces of the same general before they increase his war rank. The general could also choose to keep his army with him, knowing he will be able to claim flags one by one.

 

Oh and I don't find the cloaking device in the latest build (only an item that give invulnerability). Will it come back in the beta 3 ?

Reply #54 Top

Hey guys this game is looking good. I think I'm about to pre-order it, and Elemental. I'd comment more on the changes made but I can't.

 

If I pre-order now is there a chance I can get in Beta2d? If not I'll wait for Beta3 :)

Reply #55 Top

From what was said in IRC you order today you get to download today until beta 3 comes out

Reply #56 Top

Thanks! I just pre-ordered both and I'm downloading Demigod. :grin:

Reply #57 Top

Quoting SpaghettiMon, reply 6
Thanks! I just pre-ordered both and I'm downloading Demigod.
End of SpaghettiMon's quote

 

See you online soon!!!

Reply #58 Top

I don't like the idea of 4 minions you can have.

fewer and stronger minions is good, but 4!? thats too low. the game will be much more fun if you increas that number.

Reply #59 Top

I'd rather see something like the following:

*General's minions are 150% the strength of regular grunts

-4 levels of minions that you can summon already:

*lvl 1 minotaurs, archers, priests: summon 3 minions at a time, total of 6 available for each type

*lvl 2 minotaurs, archers, priests: summon 3 minions at a time, total of 9 available for each type

*lvl 3 minotaurs, archers, priests: summon 3 minions at a time, total of 12 available for each type

*lvl 4 minotaurs, archers, priests: summon 3 minions at a time, total of 15 available for each type

 

would this make for a lot of minions on the map? yes of course it would, but thats a basis for this game that I would love to see, massive armies clashing against each other, with demigods trying to clear the battlefields and encountering each other every now and then on the field, not just rushing to each other each and every time they spawn.

Reply #60 Top

I made a post about this elsewhere, but why not just have baseline minions which you upgrade by merging them?  This makes minions valuable and it's a simple mechanic. 

Reply #61 Top

Bad place for minion types above the HP bar. That area is currently used to display active buffs, it could get confusing.

Also oberservation wards need to be destroyable.

A hotkey to select your DG only is needed. Got one for minions and minions + DG so it makes sence.


"Catapultasuri should be moved to war rank 5. Should only be 2 of them but tougher (more HP)."

I think they are fine where they are. Games are useualy over once catas enter the battlefield and WR 5 is quickly archived. Average game time at the moment is 25-40 mins. I think thats good.

Reply #62 Top

Quoting TerroR878, reply 11

I think they are fine where they are. Games are useualy over once catas enter the battlefield and WR 5 is quickly archived. Average game time at the moment is 25-40 mins. I think thats good.
End of TerroR878's quote

I agree that games are over as soon as catas enter and they shouldn't be moved up too much, maybe 1 war rank lower.  I think they are shooting for shorter games around 20 minutes. 

My average game is 15 minutes versus a weaker opponent and 25 aganst an equal opponent.  Very rarely do I hit anything over 30 minutes.

Reply #63 Top

Quoting TerroR878, reply 11

A hotkey to select your DG only is needed. Got one for minions and minions + DG so it makes sence.
End of TerroR878's quote

 

If you click your DGs portrait, it selects only the DG. I'm like 99.9999% sure that this is correct. (I know it is for assassins :-P)

Reply #64 Top

Quoting ToxDrawace, reply 13

Quoting TerroR878, reply 11
A hotkey to select your DG only is needed. Got one for minions and minions + DG so it makes sence.
 

If you click your DGs portrait, it selects only the DG. I'm like 99.9999% sure that this is correct. (I know it is for assassins )
End of ToxDrawace's quote

Yea i know about that one but a hotkey is even quicker.