I definately want to see "terrain altering" spellls like in Age of Wonders. "Ice Age" spell that slowly turns all terrain to snow and ice. This time though these spells should be "counterable" as in AoW Ice Age destroyed most players crops (since only few races are able to farm on snow) and their attempts to cast "Rejuvenate" to bring back grasslands were useless and without effect.

Truth, darkland was able to get rid of Ice Age, and this darkland then could be healed by rejuvenate, but who is supossed to have both these spells, huh ?

An interesting thing would be when someone casts Ice Age and other player casts for example Hellplane (turns terrain to volcanos, flowing lava and torrid rocky surface). When these two effects meet.... Also it would be nice if these spells would change weather aswell, so in Ice Age we can except snowfalls and blizzards.

Nasty global spells ? Well they definately should have some major implications, perhaps even some randomly chosen so you never really know what might happen. So opening that daemon gate in one game might result in the dead rising all over the world, and in the next game might result in regular meteor rains, of course the benefits should still be tempting and awesome in their own right, otherwise the spells will never get used...

And i don't know why, but i keep getting ideas of raising ancient dead gods to serve you and what not.. rather chtulhu like stuff...

But what would be the point of this spell unless you yourself see benefit from it? I mean I could see maybe convering an enemy nation in ice but you would just have to counteract your own spell to make use of it once you conquered the frozen wasteland. But as for the countering of spells I totally and completely agree!

I know that's not how it worked in, say, Age of Wonders. It's just a suggestion; Changes to the land doesn't have to be permanent.

@pigeonpigeon    

The problem I have with a straight up counter-spell mechanic is I imagine that all players at all time then would deticate a certain amount of their resoruces to counter-spelling.  Then basically it would turn to who ever is able to achieve counter-spell dominance.     The conuter-spells would need to be within reason.

I think the idea is probably to have some way to mitigate the effects of the mega-spells, not beat them entirely.  For example, a mega-spell that causes deserts to expand greatly into fertile land could have its effects reduced (say the land turns from fertile ground to plains in the areas effected by the counterspell) but not eliminated... and countering major spells would require an ongoing committment of energy.

What about having a channelling time on the spells so that it takes xamount of turns to fully(note fully) cast, so at turn 3 of casting there are some notable effects but not nearly as much as when it's finished.

Yeah its bit of a problem that frozen planes can just be harmful to you as to the enemy; that fits the condition that global spells are two-bladed swords There could be some way to "teach" your nation to live in cold environments; or perhaps if you start on cold northern continent, your people are simply used to it.

Ice Age would then become some kind of a basic, or I rather call it, a quicker way of expanding. Neighbouring nation is not willing to bow before you ? Chill the defiant will from their bones and march in there You could expand this way until you reach a land that is similarly held by a spell (oponnent channeler) which would be your final bus stop.

It could be even more extreme. One of the aspects in defeating enemy channeler could be to undermine his power and allow your Ice Age to expand into his territory. As in AoW, such global spells require upkeep in order to sustain its effects. This req. could be expanded so that you have a slider saying "how much mana you spend on upkeep". When two terrain-altering spells meet this decides which one will beat the other.

Once your Ice Age moves further, he is in trouble.

This could be interesting mechanic, I think.

I do like this, that its not just a one time do the spell and its done. I like the idea that you would have to keep using your energy and essence to maintain your spells. I hope the devs shine some more light on this soon

Overall, I do too. Just as long as it didnt like become commonplace as a strategy, because idk about you but if I was player A and Player B and C are duking out their "Ice Age" war Id get pretty frustrated to have to keep looking at all that snow! And what if I decided to melt some of it and they declared war on me for it! hmmm... I think that that sort of thing would be stupid. So it should def be a very magic (or essence) consuming task that drains as you maintain it.

I kind of agree with you... I'm pretty torn on how to solve the problem here. I think there definitely has to be a way to protect yourself from ANY enemy's spell, so long as you're willing to commit the time and resources - which should be significant in the case of major spells. I don't know about you but I'd be pretty frustrated if an enemy channeler casts annoying spell after spell on my kingdom and I can't do anything to stop it. 

Maybe you should only be able to cast counterspells against spells that are aimed directly at your kingdom? In addition there should be more permanent defensive spells that, once in place, mitigate any enemy spells against you but don't completely prevent them? Like in AoW:SM, as persistent spells they should have an upkeep. So if I find out that my enemy just started to cast Fire Rain against me, I could cast the counterspell and prevent it from ever going off. Or, I could let him cast it, knowing that the Magic Guard spell I put in place 10 turns ago will reduce its effect by 50%.

Ooo, and maybe you should only be able to cast the direct counterspell to spells that you also know how to cast! That could lead to some interesting scenarios. In fact, with a system like that I would even be in favor of completely countering massive global spells. After all, if somebody starts to cast a massive global spell that would be devastating to you, what are the chances that you'd know that same spell? You would only have researched it in anticipation of someone else trying to cast it as a way to prevent them from doing so.

And if you combine this with Iwarmonger and Bootss1's ideas, then you can get some really neat effects. Adapting Iwarmonger's idea, if you don't manage to gather enough strength for your counterspell to work completely, it can still mitigate the effects (in addition to whatever permanent defenses you've set up). If you combine that with Bootss1's idea, then for major spells that slowly go into effect, the counterspell will constantly strive against the spell. In fact, the way it could work is that countering a spell impedes the progress of the actual spell. The amount it would impede the spell would be dependent on the power/turn invested. So if the counterspeller invests more than the spellcaster, then the spell progress will be reversed! But if it's the other way around, then the spell will continue to progress but at a diminished rate!

Another way to counter spells (I think this should be in addition to the above!) could be to cast a spell with the opposite effect. If one channeler tries to freeze the world and another tries to burn it, a similar scenario as the one above with the counterspell would occur. The reason why i think this should be in addition to and not instead of the direct counterspell option is because not all spells should have direct opposites.

These ideas would give the player the ability to counter enemy spells, but only if their channeler knows the right magic and has good espionage, and is willing to commit the resources to it. Also when you get to the more powerful, especially global spells, it would give you that visceral feeling of two major powers striving against each other - much more than just flinging fireballs at each other would.

Sorry for the convoluted post... I used this post to formulate my thoughts as I went...

Lets look at it this way. We know that we are going to recreate the world by ourselves. This propably means we have freedom in choosing what terrain we want. So basically, Ice Age (if you havent already noticed, yes, ice is my favorite element) is the first spell you are going to cast at the beginning of the game. Its simply a magical battle of different opinions on what world should look

Lets say the basic terrain/not-terrain that is one the whole world at the start of the game has resistance 0. That means, I can cast Ice Age of power 1 and it works and spreads further and further. Until I meet someones Grasslands. Assumming Grasslands user also used power 1, once they meet, they merely stop. Perhaps they stop a little far from themselves so between them is the hostile terrain. Grassland user is greedy and decides he has small living space and improves power to 5. Thats quite a lot, his grasslands expand and my territory is dwindling.

(lets try not to ignore other peoples posts) I improve my Ice Age to 10 power AND then cast "Ice persistency" global (rather domain, but are domains here ? :P) defense spell. Until now, ice age power 10 meant resistance = 10. Not now, because of my buff, Ice Age power 10 = resistance 20.  This way I sort of burnt my enemy's lake (if this sentence looks strange to you, then its ok..i direct translated it from my language :P) since if he was to atleast stop the expanding of my spell, he has not to improve power to 10, but to 20. Myself would in total use only 15 power to sustain these effects since I put power 5 in my buff.

My enemy then can accept new conditions (for now) OR if he intends to continue this battle he can attempt to dispel my ice persistency since leaving it be would be resource-unwise.

Now Ive gotten to the subject of actual dispelling. We are talking about, lets call it "astral dispelling" BECAUSE events that happened as I described above were infact continous spells and counterspells in the right point of view; its the method

only we do not have to take in account mechanics of elements because of 2 factors: a) ice and grass are not opposite both are magically sustained . This method I will call "element dispell".

but anyway, our goal is to dispel "Ice persistency". Properties of this spell are as following: its a (domain) buff, or call it support spell since by itself, ice persistency does nothing - requires an active Ice Age. Its of the ice sphere, but problem is we cannot directly aim at it. Its everywhere where is ice age. The only way of using element dispelling would be burning entire part of world where Ice Age takes effect. That sounds rather costly, since our buff we want to dispel is in effect.

We are going to use "astral dispelling". This one does not take elements or place of spell in account. By magical means it can reach and pick to dispel only our desired buff and shave it off; essentially, you need to cast a  counterspell 50 % stronger than desired spell. Ice persistency has power 5, so counterspell has to be atleast 7,5 (8) to take effect. Unlike before though, this counterspell is instant. Once you cast it, I cannot decide to fuel my buff more in order to keep it in place. Finished, buff is gone.

ADDITIONAL EFFECT of counterspell is that it prevents the use of the counterspelled spell for X amount of turns. Prevents abuse. Without this in place, I could simply cast my buff again and you'd had to dispell it again; it would cost me less in the end though. So counterspell also bans the spell for a period of time. The more extra power you put in your counterspell, the longer the spell is banned. I believe here could be used multiplied increase. Base amount is eg. 3. So counterspell power 8 = 3 turns ban. Counterspell power 9 = 6 turns ban, etc....

Whoooh, I should end, lol.

@ pigeonpigeon     Well, I think my point is that I think that a single thing that protects from ANY enemy is too powerful.   Like I think someone who gets off one of the global spells should have an undeniable upper hand.   like Iwarmonger said, at best you should only be able to lessen their effects of you (so that you could beat another player that didn't get a heads up or possibly survive long enough to get off your own super-spell)

I do like the idea of countering effects (burn the world vs. freeze the world) because then it would become a disjunction war. 

Good mechanics Lungdrago, but I'm not sure end-game spells should really have that kind of thing.  LIke it said, Elemental will have some intentionally un-balanceled spells.  That would be good for some of the earlier spells.

So I want to destroy the world...

Well I would first drop rocks on citys I dont like, more magic = bigger rock

Next I would open rifts on top of citys I dont like, more magic = bigger rift

After that I would use plagues accross the world, more magic = stronger plague

Bring the dead back from the grave more magic = larger area of effect & the farther back the spell goes

I like ice age BUT! it should be progressive, start at the poles and start moving to the center

Solar effects should start at the center and go to the poles (scorch, fire etc.)

Earthquakes can be localised too

wraping the world in fog is useful when my troops cant see (or all fly)

Paying a demigod of hell (or what ever) to come to my plane and cause problems is aways fun

as is summoning a force of nature (giant nature elemental that turns citys and improvments back into natural things)

Defence!

localised effects should override global effects

my gaia blessing should override your iceage etc

floating citys would be immune to earthquakes of course (and a number of other factors)

Mega effects should nulify each other, a solar scorch and ice age would leave 2 bands of good land left.

town buildings should effect the towns restance to some world effects (mage guild trys to push back the cold)

I really liked Dominions 3's top level summons, some of the things I think really worked.

Summoning individuals, while some of top summons were interchangible units, like the Tarrasque, others like the elemental kings/queens and the demon lords were named individuals with a backstory and if they were allready summoned you couldn't get them.

Summoning courts: some high level summons like the Faerie Queen broguht there servants along with them (she had 15 sprites), that was cool.

Summons as global enchantments, some spells (and not unconcidently my favourites) were global enchantments & summons: you could summon The Wild Hunt (attacks enemy priests if they are in forests), The Kindly Ones (hunt down blood mages) or the Fata Morgana spell that filled your empire with friendly phantasams (reduced unrest, increased income and production and defended your lands)

The verity of alternative words to summon helped too they used call, awaken, contact, bind etc. It worked

Landisaurus Casts:  NECROPOST

(I'm doing this a few times in the near future)   

I want to see what other ideas people have.   There is some fresh blood in the forums,  and we're about to get our hands on the alpha version of the tools, so it would be good to get those creative juices flowing in preparation to actually being able to create such spells.

I'm throwing in another idea (I originally thought of this as an event)

Meteor ("such power, I regret crushing it" - Sturm) -  a meteor falls.  It destroys (or extremely heavily damages) everything under it.  It leaves a creator in the terrain, which has a chance to become an ore mine of some sort (random based on the type of material found in the meteor) > has a limited number of turns the mine can be in use before it become a dead mine

The size of the iron mine (and thus its duration) could depend on the size (strength) of the meteor. Although I suppose the strength of the meteor could come from its velocity (that would actually be more efficient, as kinetic energy increases as the square of velocity, and directly proportionally to mass...) - and in that case the faster (stronger) the meteor, the less of it would remain in the ground, which would result in a smaller mine...

Maybe I'm overthinking this?

This reminded me.

CHOCOBO RUSH! A massive flock of flightless birds run rampant across the lands attacking everything in site

FAT CHOCOBO A gigantic fat bird falls onto a random city/town etc.. and Smashes it completely.

no way.  I'm down with that.   

remember the old mana-slider bars we got in MoM, well I say this spell should have 2 of them.  1 for size, one for velocity.  Both of them will increase damage, but it will take more mana to increase size than it does for velocity.   Size covers both area of influence + increases the max amount of 'resource' that could be removed from the mine later.  (only the chance of higher yields, since it could still be mostly unless carbon rocks)    speed increases damage.  

So for destruction of just 2 wide creator on "blegh" city, and almost wipe out all units in the 5 radius AoE shockwave, you boost size |--|   but the speed  |----------|.   If you just want to wreck havoc on an entire metropolitin area, 5 space radius (able to take out 2 neighboring cities if this follows the Civ/Mom 3 space rule) and damaging everything in a 15 tile (a hefty chunk of an enemy nation) then you crank up that size.   Keep the velocity to a min though, because you don't want to mess up the casting time (and you're more worried about taking out as many towns as possible anyway)

A creator? what did he create?

But all jesting aside, I like the idea of a meteor! remind anyone else of Golden Sun? Loved that game!

I have one:

**Sands of Time**

Using the Elements of Earth (creating sand) or Water (sucking the water from soil) to bury a city or region of an enemy's territory in sand dunes

**Shards of Glass** (Just got this one from looking at my coke )

Use the Elements of Fire to turn that entire region you just turned to sand- into glass!

I really like the idea of being able to adjust all the different properties of spells with multiple effects individually. Being able to trade area of effect for extra power, or boosting everything way up to get large AoE and lots of power, but for a very high cost premium - or even adjusting everything down for a pretty weak version of the spell. And this should apply to all spells with multiple effects. I guess it should actually apply to all spells except any with a binary effect.

This would allow for a relatively small number of spells to cover a much wider utility spectrum and make magic feel really customizable within the game itself (obviously, we know there will be a spell editor/creator, but I'd be surprised (but elated!) if they incorporated that into the in-game magic system).

How about "Final war". All factions declare war on all other factions and are then locked out of dipolmacy. To keep it balanced players could be given advanced warning that the spell is being cast. Dipolmacy remains locked while the spell is up. However when it drops dipolmacy is reacitvated but the wars don't instantly stop.

"Berserk", enemy losses control of target stack and it randomly attacks anything nearby.

"Hells gate", opens a portal to an alternative world and new deamons swarm into the region attacking everything close by.

"Care Bear" all bears cease to fight and return home.

"Evanescent Dark Energy" - once starts, magic starts losing power until there is no more magic points, enchantments doesn't provide bonuses, no essence...

"Star Reapers" - a star faring race reaches the channelers' plane and claim all its resources, living (and unliving) beings included.

As it was said in another thread...

"Hellfire" - Burns away a section of the world permanently. The cloth map for that area is burned away, leaving only charred edges.