[IDEA] Rearranging Items, Scrolling With Mouse, More Gold for Demigod Kill

Devs are already on this one.

Good one, it makes a lot of sense, and it's a creative new one. I like the idea and would like to see it done.

I think that this is going to be made a lot more clear in the next beta when there's more objectives in the middle of maps. In short, there will be gold mines on the map, so strategic dominance will win you gold, while tactical dominance will win you experience, and I like that split, it makes you really think more strategically and gives us boffins with the reflexes of a sloth a good way to contribute. It should make you balance your need for both so that you can keep current in both. I like the idea if what I think they'll do is what they actually do.

theres also the annoyance that when you select a skill your character stops moving... and do you know if an All Random feature will ever be implemented? As well as a random bonus?

I bet this gets fixed, but I don't think anybody's brought this up. Good find.

I think it will. This beta's deliberately short on features, and that sounds like something that might be put in.

huh?

I think by random bonus he means giving some bonus like more gold for people choosing a random Demigod.

I think the 'random bonus' in that case is making the other player work a lot harder to metagame against you early on.

its a feature in DotA which lets players who choose to randomly select a character get an exp bonus (I think its 15%) which is quite helpful

I guess it might not work as well in Demigod since there are only 4 demigods per side, thus theres a good chance (25%) that you'll get the one you want, and it'll probably be easier to get proficient in multiple characters

You can play any demi on any side, but still with only 8, random isn't as big a handicap in DotA, and the lack of enemy intel on who you are evens this out pretty well.

Some more ideas:

Different creeps for the dark and light side, more so then just the subtle differences already implemented like color... It would make it harder to balance, but it would be a nice thing to see (base strategies on different sides based on the abilities of the creep?, IE. stronger creeps for dark, overall weaker demigods though which mainly play a supporting role?)

I also think that the targeting icon/info bar shouild be moved to an alternate location, or the text of demigod kills or creep upgrades should be moved since when targeting an enemy, the messages are blocked.

Finally, I think there should be an alternate name for the Tower of Lights that are created by the Rook... they are smaller and considerably weaker then the standard Tower of Lights and thus the name misrepresents them... they are merely the same skin.

Diffrent creature is already suggested somewhere else in the forum, but most peep dont like it. The game is already quite nice to look at, and we dont need more RAM-Filler. Maybe in the last stages of beta, they could at them if the performance allows it. Else, no.

Rearranging Items sounds logic, shouldnt be hard to implement. I like it.

Scrolling is also suggest, afaik. Will come in the next beta-build right?

Hero kills give 100 Gold + some more sometimes, but i dont know whats based on. Maybe if you or the opponent were in a killing spree or depending on Lvl-difference. The little text at the top of the middle of the screen appears only for a few secs, so i couldnt read it everytime.

But i know they give something around 100. Seems to be pretty less since priests give already 65 and catapult 150. I think a dead Demi should be worth 250-300 gold + 25 more for each kill he made. So if Player A gets "The Scourge" and you kill him it would be 300 + (5*25) = 425. I'd like that.

So long, Aspartem

I think putting the enemy demigod off the map is a pretty big bonus as it is, not sure we need a big gold bonus on top of it (and it's already XP I believe).

I agree.

I don't think the XP bonus should be very large at all for killing enemy Demigod's.  I wouldn't complain at all if there was none.  The reward is denying them from xp and gold so you can win the game.

DotA has too much slippery-slope/snowball effect in this way.

I think the dieing players gold like 150-200gold should go to the killing hero, along with a bit of xp for incentive not to die.. to cripple your opponites and give risk = reward

I think everyone on the team should get the gold and/or xp(Not just nearby people), with the person that killed only getting a bit more, and anyone who assisted getting the same as who killed.

But i just dont think the bonus should be so huge (i don't believe it is currently) because you're already doing a lot of damage because the person loses tons of xp and gold while respawning and then getting back to the lanes.

It's more about their loss than your gain.

You don't get an XP bonus for going random in DotA, that would be overpowered.

You get a gold bonus because you don't have to "buy" your hero. Its 250 gold.

Hm, at the dota-fora everyone hated the idea of sharing gold - well elitist-epeen community^^

But, with this new game, we maybe can get rid of some epeen behavior. So i'd say split gold for hero kills is also an incentive to play supporters. In Dota supporters are mostly played in league / clan games.. pubbies just want to own.

So long, Aspartem

innociv, I think that the reward should be huge because why else would you run around targeting other demigods? a 60 second period without a demigod? not much will be acheived... maybe you'll get a level ahead... or take down a single tower, and yeah I do realize that that leads toa  victory... but who will actually get killed if they play safely? thus, there would obviously be people who would actually run past the creeps and towers to target demigods... or to specifically target them rather then letting auto attack dictate whether or not they will

I also don't think that if a reward (if there already is one, a bigger one) is provided, it should not be split... by attacking demigods you have a higher chance of dieng, possibly lower XP and could cause a shift of the creep battles... thus the person who is taking that risk should be rewarded...

But meh, its only my opinion.

I'd say, higher reward the is splitted. Two reasons

1. No yellings like : "Zomg you feeder, banned wtfqq" if you keep the amount rewarding but still as low as possible.

2. More motivation to play supporter - a big flaw of dota. Why shall i play a hero that only helps peep (PoV of a public player), if i just can run around with Hero-Killer XY and go godlike so everyone thinks i got the biggest epeen!

Your statement : 60secs with one less is not alot, you maybe get xp bonus and can take a tower down. For example dota. If you manage to kill your opponent hero (on the solo lane) + wrecking his tower + gettin 1-2 lvl above him.. the game mostly is already decided.

So loosing a player on a competitive lvl is the bigger issue than the gold the others got. I mean.. lol even 300gold would equal 2 killed priests, so farming creeps is more effective than heros. Even in Dota. A kills gives 250gold, but a creep 40. In 30min, you can make 200 last hits.. or around 10 hero kills (still talkin about competitive or say, effective way of playin). 200x40 = 8k gold , 10x250 = 2.5k.

Ever watchet SK-Gaming etc. Dota-matches? even for non-dota players they can be quite intressting and show a total other way of playing dota.

Rewards yes, at best for the team, but nothing to great.

So long, Aspartem 

60 seconds is plenty of time.  Creeps alone are pretty useless against a demigod (not to say that creeps are always useless though).  Only towers provide any threat to your enemy, and even then, it's a losing battle.  When you die, you basically give your enemy 60secs to rampage around the map and increase their gold/experience above yours.

Word.

These are great points, and ones i agree with.  But at the same time it sounds liek in other posts you've made that you WANT a higher reward.
  I think anywhere between 100 and 250 gold is good.(maybe 100+10*level. that's 350 at level 25, but most games end around level 15 so that's 250 gold for killing somone that's level 15.  25 gold per level.. 25*25 like you said in another thread i believe, is 625, which is too much in my opinion.)

I, on the other hand, thing it should be more about keep players away from your creeps so they don't get xp/gold from them, while you are farming their creeps for xp/gold.
   It takes more effort than ganking someone, for one.  And it feels more like you're being out-played with the map control rather than being the victem of a game mechanic that just keeps making the rich richer because of them getting tons of gold from your bounty and you losing a lot.

  There pretty much must exsist a mechanic in RTS where someone keeps getting an advantage, as it's not like you can make all your guys aim for someones head in first person view, so you have to get an advantage somehow.
  I think it works better that that is from map-control and teamwork more than about ganking and getting an overpowering advantage with items.

So you are saying it's better for Demigods not to fight each other? Normaly things should be of equal value... if a player is focusing on getting the other sides buildings and flags down, while his opponent focuses on killing him, both should have a shot at winning determined by player skill. Punishing a playstyle(ganking) sounds like a bad idea to me since it'l drive people away from the game and reduce variety.

How are you "punishing" players for killing enemy demigods by not giving them a huge reward? The dead demigod will get no gold or XP while he's off the field (not even the passive income from gold mines), and can not assist his team in any way. You're already hurting the enemy team quite a bit by killing a demigod, start increasing the rewards by too much and you may as well throw up the victory screen after 2-3 kills.

Do you think you can just run through and kill an enemy base without engaging other Demigods? What do you think happens if 2 Demigods get killed and now it's 3v1, granting the 3 nearly free reign to advance (because creeps and towers will not last on their own)? The "reward" comes from the fact your team is more and more likely to win everytime you kill enemy demigods.

I actually prefer using the mouse wheel for scrolling, it's incredibly quick... zoom way out and back in. 

Yeah, I don't think commandercup understands how to move the view with the mouse in this game. You just zoom back, point at where you want to be and zoom in. It's alot faster than scrolling and you get a birds eye view of what is going on so you can direct your attention where it is needed. This should be the staple of RTS games in the future. Scrolling is out of date.

In addition, I think you can hit the home key and get split view.

Hehe, this one doesn't bother me at all.  I'm used to SupCom/FA zoom to orbit and back again, mousewheel all the way!