Defensive 'tech thoughts for future Sins releases

Phase *lane* inhibition; drone launchers; planetary surface defenses

Hi, all. Some suggestions for 1.1 or expansion consideration. I think all of these are within the "spirit" of Sins canon and warfare, although others might disagree.

A number of people desire better planetary defenses, particularly in early game. One thought for this is a turret that autospawns up to five armored drones that it controls (much like a carrier builds up to a certain number of fighters). These drones normally park beside the turret, but when an enemy fleet arrives, home in on attacking forces and hit them with a relatively weak area-effect self-destruction EMP-like explosion that primarily shorts out shields (thus making it of limited use against pirates). Five successful close detonations would be bad news for a massed shielded fleet. This would be particularly powerful against frigate spam, and could cover the entire grid within its range, although travel time for the drones would be a consequence of building it safely far away from the attack vectors (i.e. at the other side of the gravwell from the phase lanes). The unit could build one new drone every 30 seconds or so, replenishing its supply as soon as the number of drones it controls falls below five. Attacking drones could be taken out with mass focus-fire, and the structure would have a switch that the player could select to allow or deny its ability to fire on enemy scouts. Gameplay advantages: very early build menu defense; effective against player or AI frigate-spam; ineffective against multiple-attack-vector assaults (which is desirable); counters the missile-frigate-spam-at-edge-of-gravwell attack. Gameplay disadvantages: might promote the use of micromanagement where attacking players position their fleets before warp-in to hit at various points on the target gravwell.

One thought for planetary defense that might be more mid-game is a mechanism to affect transit speed in phase lanes themselves. This 'tech could slow down vessels approaching the planet in phase space to a fraction of their normal speed once they pass the "halfway point" in the phase lane. This Phase Lane Disruption structure will allow the player time to better organize their own fleet for defense, and might be upgradable to increase its efficiency (e.g. level 1 = slow approaching enemy to 50% of speed; level 2 = slow approaching enemy to 25% of speed). It would require the "detect hostile forces" technology as a prerequisite build item, and any phase lanes that terminate within a specific  radius of the structure's construction point would be affected. Advantage to gameplay: encourages good defensive planning strategy; a "passive" defense that only assists the player with time to organize their own defense and does nothing to help defend planets that are too far away. Disadvantages to gameplay: slows down gameplay by partly trapping enemy fleet; could encourage more stalemates at heavy chokepoint battles.

Finally, an anti-siege frigate spam defense might be a planetary gun. This automated low-orbit planetary surface building would use up a 'tech spot and rapidly traverse the equator to automatically fire only at any sieging craft as long as planetary health > 0. Advantages to gameplay: siege frigate spam would be more costly to attackers; requires no interaction from defenders once built; a unique 'last line of defense' option. Disadvantage to gameplay: might encourage attacking players to micromanage siege frigates by swapping them in and out to avoid having them destroyed; may increase balance of power toward capital ships.

-- Retro

27,399 views 9 replies
Reply #1 Top
low-orbit planetary surface building


Isn't this a little contradictory?

Most of this is possible via modding (save some of the "can't fire at X type of ship" stuff). How is #3 different from a gauss turret, except its selection of only siege frigates?
Reply #2 Top
Not really contradictory if you consider it to be "infrastructure": it couldn't be resting on the surface or it wouldn't be able to maneuver to wherever around the equator that it was needed. It's the same category as a Vasari civilization structure - it would be within the inside circle of the gravwell and thus more a part of the planetary infrastructure component of the system than the gravwell orbital-structure component. But it wouldn't be "physically" attached to the planet.

The differences between #3 and a Gauss Turret are
- unlike a Gauss, it can't be targeted and destroyed during the initial invasion so it remains a threat until the planet is defeated,
- only planetary attack vehicles can affect it,
- it can only affect planetary attack vehicles that are assaulting the planet.

Having one of these prevents an enemy player from leaving a couple siege frigates or single capship in orbit to mop up while the rest of their fleet jumps to the next system. They must either make a choice to completely cover their advance by going more slowly and glassing every planet they touch, or blitzkreiging just to take out the infrastructure as fast as possible.

-- Retro
Reply #3 Top
You're definitely right about needed more defensive capabilities in this game. They're way too small at present. Hopefully this will be addressed in a patch.
Reply #4 Top
Theres tons of defences!

You can put Light Frigs around a planet.
You can put LRMS around a planet.
You can put Carriers around a planet.
You can put Heavy Cruisers around a planet.
You can put Support Cruisers around a planet.
Reply #5 Top
You're making my point for me innociv. You have to use ships if you want any real defense. That is the problem.

It would be nice if they would have a setting for defensive capability so each player could set it to their liking.
Reply #6 Top
You're right..

These turrets which cost as much as a frigate and are half as good as a cap ship is not enough.
These repair buildings better than 2 dozen hoshinkos are not enough.
These hangers that cost as much as one carrier and are as good as 2 is not enough.

:|

The only thing that would be nice is some sort of starbase, like a cap ship that can't phase jump. Soemthing that moves around within the grav well and possibly has a PJI.

Besides that. .why wouldn't you guys prefer more ships instead of my defences? I don't understand the obsession with so many people about static buildings that attack
Reply #7 Top
Not to mention that all of the current defenses are completely independent of your fleet capacity.

I'm all for more options and wouldn't argue if they wanted to add one for more defensive structures or power but I don't think it's something the game necessarily 'needs'. They do exactly what they're supposed to do in their current form.
Reply #8 Top
Space stations :LOL: go to my post "Space Stations Anyone?" to see my argument :CONGRAT: 
Reply #9 Top
I've been working on a mod that doubles culture rates, doubles allegiance drop rates, and then slashes the cost on special defensive buildings, and brings them down to a reasonable tech level. I've also reduced the cost of culture buildings to that of tradeports and then reduced the research costs as well.

I've also ripped out the crystal cost of turrets and then cut metal costs in half, then doubled the range. Some other changes too. I slapped this ontop of the balance mod you came out with innociv.

Of course, it's just a mod to see how things work out. It's actually worked surprisingly well, at least against the AI. Of course that never pans out into real MP play, but the CPU seems to be taking the changes on well, as the culture centers and defenses it builds actually present a challenge. Even with cheap siege frigates, the AI seems to have gotten over the idea of gank squads now that the resources from empire building actually -have- a profound impact.

The objective was to move the focus of the game slightly farther from frigates- allowing capital ships and empire building to be a viable alternative.

The result is that putting down culture is actually threatening. Culture spreads fast enough that if you don't start building culture in response to it, it can take down your planet -alot- faster. Not as fast as a bunch of siege, but the spread is fast and wide, allowing it to threaten multiple planets( And decrease thier income) at once. And this is only from 1-2 buildings.

Here's my changelist:
I call it
The "Imperial" Mod.

Increase Culture spread rate x2
Increase culture damage rate x2 (Allegiance change)
Reduced the cost of culture centers to that of trade centers
Reduced the research cost of culture centers by 1/4

-Reduced the cost of capital ship research by 1/2

-Reduced Refinery credit cost by 1/3

Decrease the metal cost of turrets by 1/2, removed Crystal Cost
Double Range of Turrets
Set Advent Hanger cost to equal TEC & vasari Hangers
Decrease the cost of capital ship research by 1/2

Reduce Siege Frigate & Supply costs by 1/2

TEC
Double the effect of Insurgency (fleet Size)
Reduced Time between Insurgency attacks
shield generator moved to T3
Research cost reduced by 1/3
Slots reduced to 2
Hit points Quadrupled

Advent
Speed Building no longer costs money
moved AntiMatterRecharger to Tier 3
Decreased Research cost by 1/2
Reduced Build Cost by 1/3

Vasari
Nanoweapon jammer moved to T3
reduced research cost by 1/3
reduced build cost by 1/3

This change list probably isn't balanced well at all, heavily favoring the TEC and the Advent. I haven't played with it extensively, just theorycrafting for a more "Empire" oriented 4x game.