I'm just not sure about the OP's suggestion that IC should have put out a stripped version of the game.

I have a feeling if people would get a demo with 1 or 2 units, limited tech and limited civic upgrades, they would be saying "this game sucks, there aren't enough ships".

I didn't think demos were made to be finished. Just to get a feel for the real game.

I think some people have forgotten what a demo is supposed to be.

Though I'm not sure if it would necessarily be "better" than the current one I can see how a unit, faction, research, etc. limited demo could work. Maybe let ppl play as TEC but hold back some of their "cool" units like the Novalith, Kodiak, Sova, and Marza. Some of the earlier betas were similarly limited and after playing them I definitely couldn't wait to try the Advent and Vassari.

BE very careful about any negative remarks about this game, your
forum will be locked like mine was.

Your going to post in this one to deselance? troll!

You had your own forum? And it was locked by the mods!! Wow, you mods must have some pretty extensive powers! Particularly if you can mosey on into another forum and completely shut it down!

K I just played the demo all night lol. It’s 90 min per game. An to tell you the truth if you can't fig out if you like the game with this demo then just don't bother. There was plenty to keep you busy and get a grasp on the game.

I still haven't figured out how the economy works yet though. =p

i give the Demo 2 thumbs up. I'll most likely buy the game...but woosh I see how this can be a major time sink lol

First of all, 90-minutes on a small map actually allows you a good opportunity to see a lot that Sins has to offer, especially if you play it with the faster settings.

Second, if he likes it enough that he's actually jonesing to finish a match after 90-minutes then he obviously likes the game enough to buy it.

90 minutes with all features enabled imo seems more than adequate to decide if you want to buy the game or not. Limiting the features available in the demo (rather than the time) would be more off-putting for me - I'd rather to see how all factions and units play than have these cut out of the demo.

If you find yourself wanting to play on after 90 minutes, then it's probably time to buy the full game.

Oh, so you're whining for the 'silent majority' or something?

Uh huh.

By the way, I haven't seen a demo that lasted longer than about 20 minutes for years. Would you be pissing your pants screaming and crying if it gave you two hours? Five hours? Twenty four? How much is enough for you? Maybe you didn't notice but most RTS games can be finished in under an hour.

Since the demo is for people who haven't played before, and they're used to RTS games being played out in less than an hour, probably about 30-40 minutes, they *HAVE* no perception that the game will be 'unfinishable'. From their POV, the length will be more than enough.

Durrrr, ever think of that?



They wouldn't be able to experience it either if they couldn't build capital ships, cruisers, or tech past level 3.

Agreed.



Yes, he obviously does like the game and has said so a few times so he probably will or has already bought it.



So don't limit it like that then. In exchange for no time limit a demo could give access to only the TEC faction and if necessary hold back a few of their units like the Novalith, Kodiak, and one or two cap ship classes.



Lots of the reviews mention that playing a round of SoaSE can take a couple of hours to finish. But I agree that the OP seems to be overly concerned w/ the few ppl who might, for whatever reason pass on trying the demo b/c of the time limit.

I just find it frustrating to see that when the OP has taken the time to post (and subsequently try to clarify) a suggestion that they believe will help that so many of the responses are backhanded insults, personal attacks or just outright flames. Even if the suggestion is worthless, it doesn't mean the OP is.

I just love how the OP keeps emphasizing the PERCIEVED value of this demo. I would like to offer just one little hint: It's a demo, a free demo. It has a value of Zero, as in, you do not pay anything for it. So how can you complain at the near full features offered in this free demo which offers a much greater percentage of it's total features then any other game I've seen demo'ed out there?

Ok, personally, I'm annoyed at any demo that offers perhaps 10-20% of the features, played on an unlimited time frame, which I can't be bothered to play for an unlimited time because it has nothing to offer. So many kudos to Stardock and Ironclad for their huge offering to entice people in buying a game that has NO copy protection (ie, able to be pirated).

If someone cares so little about such a gift, then they might as well pirate such a game, and I'd rather that Stardock and Ironclad ignore the very small percentage of people who aren't actually interested (and so would just rather pirate a game cause it's cheaper that way, both in cost and in morals), and focus on the many who are interested in all this game has to offer, but just want to be sure before they shell out $40 willingly (note the emphasis).

Btw, Nyquist, you're contradicting yourself by supporting the OP and people who counter his posts, and effectively giving the same reasons for doing both. Also note that only a small portion of the posts that challenge and re-challenge the OP are offered as insults, personal attacks, or flames. Now, you may go ahead and call my post a flame or insult, but it isn't. It's a post pointing out an obvious flaw of reasoning that no one seemed to really key upon. So, if you really want to go ahead and label this post, this is just a backhanded remark to everyone who didn't really think about this.

Of course, I could be doing you a big disservice, Nyquist, and could be missreading something you wrote. So if I am, please, let me know. I am fallible, and I am very tired right now, since this is post Easter Sunday, and I'm part of my church choir, so I've had a long and exhausting day. So, if I did, then please, point it out, and please accept my apologies ahead of time, and will apologise officially when I'm not so tired.

Anyways, when you really get down to it, Stardock and Ironclad has mashed together a $20 or so package, and has offered it for free. When you have a free game that has had so much value retained, the returns can only be substantial. Please remember the message offered concerning piracy and the goal of this game to be targeted to the largest group of consumers, that is, people willing to buy/purchase instead of simply sampling. Those same people that are targeted, have demonstrated, over and over, that they are not going to waste time with penny packet demo's that don't offer any of the goods. They'd rather buy the game right off after checking several reviews, trusting the reviews of the vast majority and their own personal knowledge and interest in the product. After all, if they weren't interested in the first place, why would they look at it at all? If they are interested, they'll see what people who played have to say, and if they want to try it, they'll want a real experience. Since they are already considering buying the game, why would they have a problem with a time limit incentive?

So again, many kudos to Stardock and Ironclad for making a willing sacrifice to shrug off the very people who despise consumerism and for taking that step to cater to the real buyers. Keep it up, and don't turn yourself into liars by catering to the small group of people who wouldn't buy your product fairly no matter what.

Oh, and I should note that I have actually bought SoaSE, well before the demo, since I'm one of those people that Stardock and Ironclad targeted, a willing consumer. However, considering what I've read about the demo, if I hadn't bought the game yet, just because I was holding out for one, if I had tried the demo, I'd have gone out to buy the full version as a result of that demo. Having seen what the full version offers, and noting what the demo is offering, I know, know that the demo would've been the final step to sealing the deal and sending me to the nearest Gamestop/EB to pick it up.

I agree with the majority here. The demo is just a D-E-M-O to give a potential customer a preview or feel of what the game is. Not just a free mini game to play over and over again. You should know within 90 minutes of hands on playing whether or not you will buy the game.

Personally, i think being able to play for 90 minutes is pretty generous.

I disagree with the 90 minutes. Demos shouldn't be punishing players for wanting to play the game a long time. Demos should restrict features, they shouldn't restrict the time players have to play the game. If a player wants to get addicted to a demo and beat it into the ground, they should by all means be able to do so. They can then decide if the extra features for a full game are truly worth it.

I think that players should have unlimited time to play through a map. For 2-3 player, preset maps. Custom maps or larger maps can still keep the time limitation. But it allows prospective buyers the chance to play a demo through completely, which is very important!

I'm afraid I haven't tried the demo out. But I know I'd feel shortchanged if I couldn't play a map for more than 90 minutes. The best part is just as you approach victory near the end! Why would you deny the most satisfying part of the game to new players?

That's cool, except for one small flaw in your logic:
You already have to be familiar with the game! Why would a DEMO assume THAT?

Considering that this is supposed to be a RTS game with unlocked techs, I understand why they went this route.

What they could've done is pick the pointblank map and have both races forced to TEC on the easiest/medium difficulty. Nothing else could be changed.

I don't see anything wrong with the time limit. It does give you lots of options to discovery and should at least hint to the player whether they are interested in the game or not. If it takes more than an hour to have fun, Stardock has bigger problems to deal with.

I think they did a VERY smart thing. I know if I had not already gotten this game, I'd have the demo right now. And I'm sure when my 90 minutes was up, I'd want MORE. I can't stand demos that have many of the features missing, cause it's not a true representation of the game. With this demo, you get the entire game, but you just get a "first course"; if you want the whole meal, you have to buy the game.

What I don't like is my friends said you have to "sign up" for the demo, and join some program, and give out personal info. Is that true? If so, that's mega-bad, cause I know several of my friends won't join "clubs" and give out personal info just to get a demo, especially a demo of a game that's suppose to have no copy protection. . . .

I can only imagine, as a dev, the time it would take to remove features and still maintain any kind of balancing and keep the game fun, true to the full game, and cost effective.

Unlimited 90 minute games for free.  it almost seems like one could sell the game and create a leader board for that. 

Again, I repeat my statement. You didn't pay anything for the demo, so you can't be shortchanged. You don't get negative returns if you don't pay anything in the first place. You are taking zero risks by playing the demo since you are not spending any money. You're only using up time to try it out. Anyways, it's a demo. Why should people be so enamored with a demo, wanting to play it over and over and over again?

Of course, there is another point I should bring up. I'm sure you know the saying "Time is money." That just lends another point to how good the time limit is. It encourages people to try out the demo, then buy the full version, instead of wasting time playing the demo over and over again.



You're missing the point of that comment. After playing the demo (with full tech and building features), eventually, a person can get so good at the routine that they can learn the game and play it quickly. It could actually be done on a small fast map. The demo assumes nothing, except that it offers a person a taste of what is offered in the full version. It's entirely up to the player's skill to get more than that out of this demo.

Oh, and Nyquist, after reading your post a bit more carefully, I did misread it. You're focus was mainly on how people were talking down to rolfski personally, not about how people were talking down on his idea's. And even though only a few people did leave bad comments, any bad comments are rude and unnecessary. So sorry about rebuking you and calling your comments a contradiction. You've got some good points raised up in that post, nothing that could really be any trouble.

PurplePaladin, Ironclad/Stardock servers are completely different than the game itself. The games are hard coded, and no personal info can be loaded onto the programming itself. But the servers have their own defenses, and I'm completely certain that those servers are protected. After all, if they aren't protected, Ironclad and Stardock would be destroyed for violating privacy act protection laws. Give the Government that much. They get all up in arms when private corporations don't protect private info.

Basically, when you download and install the demo, you do what everyone who bought and installed the full game did, they (including me) signed up for this site to upload the serial number, which is specially coded and formulated to lock your game to your account. Once it's uploaded, no one can mess with your game. The limited personal info you give (I've only given my name and birthday, btw, which isn't much, since I don't have much more personal info floating around there, and I did it just because. I wasn't required to do that) is just to prove you are you, and anything you give out is protected. They don't drop it onto a program and release it. They don't require your credit card info or social security # or personal ID #. They just want an e-mail addy and password and the game's serial number. So you can rest comfortably.

I think 90 minutes is more than gracious. It's a freakin demo. I knew just by looking at the YouTube videos that I wanted to buy this game. If I had a 90 minute demo then that would have been even better!

People always want something for nothing. Go out and buy the game if you want to play longer. That's the whole point.

The point of a demo is to get the user to buy the game. Your goal is to get them to like it and demand more.

This demo aids this by allowing the player to see the whole game (albeit in this case, just one race). This way they get a feel for how things work and what it has to offer, but then they get curious to how the other races would play.

The time-limit is great because it's a tease - how is this a bad thing for sales? You get to start the game without putting in a quarter, while they hope you pay up to hit continue?

I find it baffling that some people don't get it. Stardock and Ironclad ultimately want to make money. Any demo worth its salt is a tease - you end up playing it for a bit and say, "Argh, this is great; I wish there was more; I have to go buy this so I get more!"

Most demos, in some way, are short on time. Even an FPS, which will give you one "level", is in effect time limited, because there's only so much one can do before they're done with the level. And if the demo is good, the user will say, "Argh, this is great; I wish there was more; I have to go buy this so I get more!"

The only thing that could've been done differently with this demo is to give the person one map with the ability to play it to completion. But I understand the reasoning for not. It would be way too much game to give away for free.

90 minutes is enough time for a person to decide if they want to buy the game (which is the POINT of a demo, not to allow the user to have fun for days on end). My first game ever, which I played on easy, on one of the smallest maps, against one opponent, I finished in about 2 hours. I'm quite sure if I did a second game with the same specifications, I could finish it in 90 minutes.

-HM