couldnt focus, had to repeat riddlin over and over again?

Ataro a Dune!


Power overwhelming.

I knew this topic was gonna get ugly

This thread is missing one more thing, but I can't put my finger on it...

stress what did you expect? they repeated the same things over, I repeated the same things over from as many different angles as I could TRYING to make them understand, and then Kosc posted a picture of the pope.

the good, the bad and the ugly.

No, just pointing out the fact you confused a verb someone might use in a Batman flick with a ADHD drug.

I'm guessing you dont know that because you're a MD...
case in point, you take it, I dont.


for all of you STILL struggling with the concept of the Vasari, this is how you play them:

NOT this:

or you'll end up like this:

mkay? class dismissed.

So where is this guy's phase gate?

So how do you get this
WWW Link

combined with your superior tactics into this


So without actual prof, your just

See I was going to say something productive...

multi the proof is all their, the proof of CONCEPT hasnt had time to develop.

just because you're pathetically clinging to your completely stomped mindset means your the

not me.

seriously, you have been so utterly crushed under the weight of evidence and INTELLIGENT and EXPERIENCED player commentary that we need a spatula to take your head out of the dirt.

Schod,

The Vasari have been a spacefaring and planet conquering race for a lot longer than the TEC according to the Lore.

The TEC are listed as "primitive" with little experience in military technology compared to the Vasari.

As such I think it's perfectly acceptable to expect that the Vasari will vastly crush any TEC ship 1 vs 1.

The key to balancing their superior technology is that they are only an "exodus fleet". They're just a break-off group of a once-mighty empire, on the run from an unknown enemy.

They only have 100 years in each location before they have to flee again. So they should likely suffer penalties to their mining and income to represent that they never have time to fully develop those systems before having to pack up and move.

Their ships should cost more, and they should take up more fleet capacity. Thus you have a true representation of what myself and many others see in the Lore of the game.

A technologically superior race that is on the run and has small numbers. They rely on their warfare focus and advantages to hopefully defeat the TEC, who have reigned in their area of the galaxy for quite some time and thus possess the resources and infrastructure to outproduce the Vasari, but still have much weaker technologies.

The TEC should have technologies that focus more on resource accumulation, building production and reduction in costs, etc. While the Vasari should have techs that focus on making their ships more powerful, faster, more resistant to damage, etc.

It should take many TEC units to take down a Vasari unit. And the Vasari units should be more unique in their abilities and functions. Less selection of unit types/roles, but more combined.

An example would be that a Vasari cap ship could have the ability to act as a carrier and also provide support logistics type assistance to other fleet vessels. So perhaps scale down the available ships to the Vasari so they have 3 cap ship choices, but each one is more functional and powerful than any single TEC cap ship.

In the end, the fact of the matter, based on the Lore, is that if the Vasari were coming as a united Empire that wasn't on the run from an unknown enemy, they would easily subjugate the TEC populations.

grandgnu, exactly, and thanks for putting into more well written words as i lack the words in english

Though i fear Shod come and ruin what you said with something like: Phase gates!!! or they are superior already (without prof)

Glad to help Multianna. From what I've read from many other posters, it appears the majority agree with our point of view, rather than Schods. He's just trying to be overly vocal about his side to drown us out (and he continually insults other posters as well, challenging their intelligence, etc.)


As paying customers we should certainly be heard by the devs, as should Schod. But I honestly believe that:

-the tech tree for the Vasari & TEC

-The special abilities of the Vasari & TEC

Do NOT match at all with the majority of players expectations from each race, and actually make little sense. The TEC have way too many weapons-focused abilities and technologies compared with their "trader" and "primitive" designation in the Lore.

The Vasari do not have enough abilities based on their "ancient" conquering empire lore.


And slapping different skins/models on the ships and then saying one shoots "lasers" and the other "pulse guns" or whatever does not make diversity in this game. I still don't get a feeling that I'm playing a different race when I choose one over the other. They both still feel very similar.

Yes, we know Schod, "phasegates". But aside from that, the buildings and ship classes and roles are just too similar to make the game experience anything unique. It makes the game much more bland and reduces my confidence in the developers and their future games that I might have purchased had this one turned out correctly.   

I read this sentance twice, not only is it not funny, it is also wrong.

On another note, I never took the Lore for anything solid, its only Lore, and it was never hugely specified. No numerical evidence whatsoever. I mean we can't even say the Exodus Fleet is small. An empire that encompasses a quarter of a galaxy would have thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of ships. Even a fraction of that woud be quite a lot of ships. Not to mention that for the past 10,000 years the Vasari have been slowly reproducing and building new ships to vacilitate their people. Their ships should not necessarily be more expensive, nor necessarily more powerful. The reason for the lack of power would be that the TEC is entirelly geared towards defeating the Vasari, they have studied them for a decade and have made technologies that counteract Vasari ones. I think there will be a triangle at work here, TEC will trumpt Vasari, Vasari will trumpt Advent, and Advent will trump TEC.

you guys are pulling lore out of thin air, ignoring the parts relevant to my argument, twisting their words to make them fit like a glove to yours, and flipping out when I say that there are multiple meanings to "advanced"

yeah, you're being childish.

thanks, and how is it wrong?

I'm not saying there isnt hope for her point of view, but it certainly isnt healthy when they're relying on 1/3 of what the lore says, their own preconcieved notions and nothing else...

And with eet's superior tactics:

I think a lot of people are misinterpreting the lore and I am partly to blame because I took some artistic license to write the introduction of the Vasari in the press release as if I was the Vasari first arriving. However, in the game it's actually been 10 years of warfare with the TEC since that time (see the lore link above for a read on the details). When the Vasari first arrived the Traders were primitive in comparison and they took heavy losses. Now, 10 years later, the TEC have adapted and are holding their own (atleast on the Vasari front). This has forced the Vasari to settle somewhat and dig in despite the fact they know they don't have much time. The Vasari's primary advances that are still out of reach of the TEC are in phase space, gravity and nanotechnology. All of this is adhered to in their ships, technologies and play styles.

I will also say that the abilities and research subjects of the Vasari do make them play substantilly different than the TEC even though they share the same core macro mechanics and role types. This is an intentional design decision and not a cop out. It has taken years to create the unique functionality of each race's abilities and research topics. Our intention was that the core mechanics would be easy to pick up and transferable between the races but the specific details of the more advanced stuff would be completely unique. The classic 'easy to pick up, difficult to master' mantra comes to mind. I think part of the problem is the Vasari do start somewhat similiar to the TEC but as you unlock their abilities they diverge quite a bit.

Nonetheless, we hear what people are saying and we have a flexible and powerful data driven engine that we can use to change things to improve the differentiation in a very short amount of time. Speaking as myself and not an Ironclad rep, I am in favor of making some of the unique elements of the Vasari available earlier to make the differences noticeable sooner and I'd like to exagerate the power and unit count differentiation a bit more. Fewer units, but more powerful for the Vasari. More units, less powerful for the TEC. Oh and yes, phase missiles definately need some tweaking

and that is all we needed to hear in a nutshell. as always, very well put Blair.

I'm happy, everyone else good?

Fewer units, but more powerful for the Vasari. More units, less powerful for the TEC.

So schod, what would you call this race? Starts with a P. Common, say it!

10 years warfare with eachother. At the beginning they could crush the TEC (which didn't even exist, if you read the lore...) but by now, the two sides have balanced out.



Yeah, well, don't forget that the Europeans called the Native Americans barbarians and savages when they came over to the so-called "New World".

Saying something doesn't make it so!

Well, if anything this thread did do some good.

is that the ONLY thing you heard? he said if you guys desperately want it and they have time they'll switch their paradigm, otherwise he lauded me word for word ALL THE WAY TO PAREE AND BACK.

and I'm the arrogant, wrong, stupid bastardy one.

@blair: well, lets wait and see, those changes just might suffice to achieve what I would like to see. although at least one or two elements changed from the base formular would be nice.

Thanks you, nice to hear that you feel the same as some of us
oh and i had to translate this word "exagerate" and now i wont forget it

Im looking forward to see the change