15 year old surgeon...

It makes sense that eventually our children will become specialized at younger ages. But what this father did was wrong, and the fact that other surgeries were performed by the child instead of a licensed surgeon is disturbing.

Now if it was an emergency and the kid had obvious traning, then it wouldn't be such a big deal. But I am sure the patient didn't request the son to perform the operation.

there really are three key issues to this point, two obvious, one controversial
1) should the kid be in guinness?
duh, no. that promotes terrible things
2) should the father lose his liscense?
yes, he put both his son and TWO patients in grave danger (a cesarean section is a very dangerous operation due to the ammount of blood flow to the area)
3) should more drastic action be taken by government authority?
I believe so, and not simply out of reflex emotional reaction (dont have much in that area)
the father is obviously obsessive about his child becoming a surgeon, which is regrettable but fine, its not a rare thing. but to be so tunnelminded about making your child a surgeon that you've put three lives in grave danger, that tells to me that neither this father nor the mother have the acuity nor presence of mind to raise a child safely, and that means that there is reason to remove him from them.
of course, breaking up a family is not a light thing, but then again neither is enslaving a kid to one profession from pre-pubescance and putting three lives in danger, INCLUDING that of a baby and their son

and the response "he was there to help" hardly covers the danger, nicking an artery (let alone one enflamed by third-term pregnancy) isnt an easy mistake to reverse.

Did the cesarean go well? lol 15 years old, well some parents have serious issues. The only justifucation this could have if they were at war or something like that and needed a hand to save a life, but this clearly wasnt that case.

I'd take time to formulate an opinion, but I'm performing a triple heart bypass at 3.00 so...

wow thats ... cool

Speaking as a person who finished high school at 15 and start college at the same time I dont feel anything is wrong with the boy doing the surgery IF he had proper training and supervision and IF the patient did not have any issues. The entire notion of age equals intelligence is often substituted in peoples minds for age equals maturity and both ideas are not sound.

and you're substituting intelligence for experience.
the kid should not have performed such a dangerous surgery, if he was removing a bullet from someone's arm, or some other equally simple, non-dangerous surgery that wouldnt have been an issue.
but cutting into the womb is very dangerous, you, oh child prodigy, should know that more than the rest of the forum.
the womb draws in up to 50% of the rest of the bodies blood at the third trimester, arteries are directed off track and become enflamed as more capillaries are created. cutting one of those arteries is almost ALWAYS fatal to the fetus, and almost garunteed fatal to the mother as well. and its not exactly like you aviod those arteries while doing the surgery.

dont mistake intelligence for capacity. there are plenty of kids who have gone to college at ages younger than you who have ended up at McDonalds.

and I seriously doubt the patient was told this would happen. would you trust your life to a 15 year old? let alone that of your life AND that of your child.

Parents desearve Jail time. They make me sick.

Its like letting a 15year old kid drive a car on a motorway, and saying that because he hasnt crashed and killed anyone yet and hes been driving since he is 12 , its okay. Oh and the parents are filming it from the backseat.

if they dont get jailtime that will surprise me. its called "reckless endangerment" dont know if you can count the fetus in on that though.

I personally believe this is a bad choice in general, speed is no substitute for knowledge. whats the rush anyhow?
I personally decided to stay in school rather than jump ahead for college, its not exactly worth it to skip out on the better to get the faster.

[way off topic]
Well Socially I was a major outcast and school was not nearly as fun as I hoped it would be. The girls never took me seriously and the guys wanted nothing to do with me unless a test was on the horizon. Additionally the instructors did not know how to treat me most of the time. That is why when I turned 17 I dropped out and when into the Army. I told the recruiter I wanted to be just like Rambo and he simpled and told me he knew just what to do with someone like me. Oddly enough I went into the infantry (Ranger). You would not believe the harassment and abuse I received in training. It seemed every where I went people always got pissed at me and no one wanted to work with me. I apparently asked to many questions and over analyzed things and corrected too many people for my own good that had higher rank then me. I figured I was doing a good thing in school and in the military but the end result was the same.
[/way off topic]

  

Wow, that was off topic, but I can totally relate, except for the part about being in the army.

Plus I'm not so much of an outcast, as someone with a few good friends, and lots of totally superficial friends. Anyway, that IS way off topic.

Anyway, with the Triple Heart bypass a success (I did it while juggling scalpels) I'll now weigh simply by saying that that mother was incredibly brave...or incredibly stupid. No matter how poor you are or how long the waiting lists are, make sure that your doctor has qualifications and most of all...armpit hair (a metaphor for age, not a fetish)!

Its all basic psychology, the parents wanted to be noticed so they used their kid as a way to get themselves noticed. The kid might now have very interesting developement and parental issues, and that is if they dont go to jail.

However this is small compared to the ethics crimes the government of actualy indsustrialized countries commit every day.

And I personally think that a minor punishment should be submitted and the license removed. However no jail time for the parents, this could push the teen to do more illegal things, and since in about 15 years they will have machines that will be able to assemble viruses I wouldnt want some pathological man seeking revenge because of his childhood.

Then again I might be blowing this out of proportion, but just look at the article itself.

whens the last time that the law took second seat to the welbeing of shitty parents?

knew you would include it someplace!
but then again, that was 30 years ago..

I dont really care about their welbeing, I care about the childs well being. And keeping his parents out of jail will do wonders to his psychi.



Last time I looked Guantanamo Bay was still standing.

Its great to be be back

so all parents who commit crimes should get a "get out of jail free" card because of their kids?
thats one way of promoting sex...

its gotten better.
its getting worse, but its gotten better.

There are a bunch of those 'free cards' in the legal system I am not asking for more.

I am just saying since no harm was done to the patient, then I dont think the child should be made to suffer without parents.



And its going to be closed soon, whoo!!   

Anyone hear about the fact that we built the Mexican Border Fense on their side of the border?

Or about how Chaney claims not be part of the executive branch?

uh, yeah you are.

so if I try to murder someone, but dont succeed I shouldnt have to face charges?

for someone with a bunch o' morally charged judgements, you dont seem to understand the concept of "justice"

Vice Presidents aren't actually part of the Executive Branch, they are Legislative.
they have sway in the Executive branch, but they really arent part of it (no power, no real chain of command etc.)

Your blowing it out of proportion. No murder was committed, it was barely an ethics crime compared to the others that happen in the world.

Now the only reason it is bieng made into such a big deal is because it was on video and the media got ahold of that. So they took advantage of people like you in order to create such a fuss about it. Now I know that justice is blind, but I do hope it isnt stupid.

At most they should adminsiter a heafty fine and take away the license.



Um he denies being part of that one too.

And go look at the constitution...

my parents and I were talking about it. chances are the lady was of the "untouchable" caste. taking advantage of someone like that alone is morally unforgiveable.
how putting a woman and child in care of a pre-pubescant kid and placing them through one of the most dangerous surgeries out there isnt a moral violation in your book completely befuddles me.
there is no "blowing out of proportion", even surgeons with hundreds of C-sections under their belts admit that its a very tricky surgery, do you even know how development of the womb occurs in the third trimester?

so taking away the parents for putting a mother and child at unbelieveable risk is "stupid" persay...
wow, I think this has got to be one of the... um... less-intelligent one of your arguements. you pass judgement on governments for listening in on a couple phone calls with absolutely NO bad byproduct, but hell, parents put three people's lives at risk and they should be able to walk with hardly a slap on the wrist.

where are you getting this.

uh, yeah. its right in there that he's part of the legislature. he has absolutely no executive power, and his only real "power" is the tiebreaker vote in the legislature.
emp, take the American gov info from the American, he's part of the legislative branch, not the executive.

No I do not, nor do I care.



Assumption.





See I dont want to bother explaining my morals to you.

I am just saying that compared to all the other things happening each day this is very very small. How many women and children do you think died in Iraq? You dont see the US getting blamed for human rights violations by the media. Or look at Africa, some of the wars there arent even covered by the media and they are the worst infringements on our basic rights.

The media is starting to fail to report what matters, instead it just wants the bigger audiance, you should be glad your helping them along.


His interview.


Here some statistics, the average immigrant knows more about the American Government and American history then the average American.

Plus, your missing the point, he is just claiming not to be part of the executive branch so he wont have documents that will endanger his political career go into the national archives to be talked about by historians in 50 years.

He is just trying to save his oversize, beurocratic, hypocrytical behind.

well let me put it this way, poke hard a person without child and you probably wont cause massive internal injury and bleeding, poke hard a lady with a third trimester child and chances are you will.

and irrelevant, the point being he is a child, not a smart/mature/wise adult
then again, apparently neither are his parents smart/mature/wise.

yes, because like saddam we launch attacks of mustard gas on large groups of people, of course I dont remember where I heard that from...

now this would be a valid point. but if you knew anything of "realpolitik" the obvious dismissive arguement is that: no one cares, not even the people who use it as a politicial wedge. thats not to say there arent people who care, but its largely not the people who flaunt it at the government

tis why I'm not the average american
and the american immigrant stuff makes sense, they are fleeing their own government WHY not know all about where you're going?

ah, see if you mentioned the story I wouldnt have to confuse you.
regardless he really isnt part of the executive branch.

Age does not mean wisdom, experience, or maturity. You should know that.



Yes but dont you feel like your living in a country of idiots?



You are wrong, many people care. Otherwise there would not be International Criminal Court cases in Seirra Leone, or UN intrmission in Darfur and the Congo, what about the WHO and their constant crusade against AIDS and other STDs.

Its the people and the media who dont give this enough thought, in any other indsutrialized country this is what would be in the headlines, not what the latest fashion style is or what is happening with Paris Hilton.

99/100 times it does correlate.

I do... until I get on the internet and start seeing the other country's idiots, then I feel all better again
(not intended to mean this forum...)

UN intermission in Darfur and the Congo... first of all their acts of sitting around and saying "no, you have to stay here, you cant leave" is probably worse than if they werent there, and is obviously centered around the fact that the first world countries dont want poor, hungry, diseased immigrants to take care of.
and if I remember correctly, AIDS only became an issue a couple decades ago, why? because it came to America rather than in Africa, where it has been infecting people for ages.
and those Criminal Court Cases, does anyone pay attention and/or care?
no...

its not to say its not morally disgusting, but its the truth.

The Criminal Court Cases are revolutionary, this is the first international court that actually persecuted a countries leaders that had actual world power.

Now the Court plans to charge us for human rights crimes as well as the fact that we have illegal secret(oops not so secret) prisons not on our territories.

Will we start caring when we have sanctions placed on us?

And at least the UN keeps people fed, and AIDS only became a problem after WWII when people started having more and more sex so the levels of it rose.

the UN doesnt feed anyone, its the groups like amnesty international that feed the people.

in the WESTERN world, not in Africa.
in Africa it has been a problem back for ages, why do you think such a huge portion of their people have it?

right, so theres a reason I havent heard of them. and that is???

this is folly, they wouldnt for more than one reason, not all of them have to do with money and international relations.