Relation penalty for Forge of Overlord

from Elemental Forums

This is just smeggin annoying.  I don't even play with the spell of making victory enabled so I built the forge in order to get the bonuses to fire and earth power since I got screwed out of shards in my kingdom.  *ALL 8* AI factions dropped from neutral or better relations with me to hostile or so in a couple of turns resulting in over 20 treaty cancellations and 3 declarations of war in less than a game year!  Not to mention making a diplomatic victory completely impossible.

That was back in 0.75 so when I started up my 0.80 game guess what structure I wasn't planning on building...  Yet after building the *second last* tower I noticed all my relations dropping again so I checked and every single AI relation list had "Forge of the Overlord!" and the ridiculous -9 relation penalty listed and sure enough every treaty with every faction was gone within a few turns and I had 6 wars to fight at once within a couple game years.  All because of a structure I hadn't even built yet and which even if I had wouldn't do anything significant without the spell of making enabled.

The easiest fix would be to remove that insane relation penalty of course, except that it does make a lot of sense in games with the spell of making enabled so here's my suggestion:

1.  Replace the 'Book of Mastery' tech with 'Second Book of the Magi' or 'insert better name here' tech that enables the first two towers and the Call of the Titans spell.  Each tower now adds +1 to all four elements.

2.  Have the actual 'Book of Mastery' tech after the 'Third Book of the Magi' tech which enables the last two towers and the Spell of Making.

These changes would still allow a player to get +2 to all elements and the CoT spell without causing total world war and completely screwing any chance at an allied victory or hell, even any alliances period.  Putting the last two towers into a different tech would mean not having them show up / take up room in the city building screen which is annoying in general and could lead to accidental construction and the end of civilization as we know it ... again.

Yes it does mean the full set of four towers would add +3 to all elements instead of +2 but that insane -9 to relations penalty with every other faction changes things.  Now the cost of the final +1 to each element isn't just some gildar, metal, crystal, and building time - it's also every treaty with every other faction and constant warfare until the spell of making is cast, or forever if that victory isn't enabled!

Although that's actually an interesting gameplay option if it isn't forced on you without warning.  Maybe all the towers should be +1 to all elements since building more than two is tantamount to declaring it's now your kingdom/empire vs the rest of the world.  Perfect if going for a conquest victory come to think of it...

Oh yes, I always thought the spell of making victory was too cheap and easy so that's another reason I think the final part should be knocked back two research levels.  With those changes I might start playing with it enabled again.

15,327 views 8 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

This has been reported/discussed before.

https://forums.elementalgame.com/442296/page/1/#3341666

Reported that it is indeed the Tower of the Witch and not the Forge itself granting the -9 to all relations.

 

https://forums.elementalgame.com/443114/page/1/#3346248

Another interesting discussion thread.

 

Interesting ideas though that you have there.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

some have suggested building the tower of the witch, then mastery, then demolishing the witch.  I have never doe it, but wonder if doing so delets the -9 diplo penalty?

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting ElanaAhova, reply 2

some have suggested building the tower of the witch, then mastery, then demolishing the witch.  I have never doe it, but wonder if doing so delets the -9 diplo penalty?

 

Just tested this, and destroying the Tower of the Witch does indeed get rid of the penalty, though it seems to take a turn to update. Destroying any of the other parts, including the Forge itself, does not remove the diplomatic penalty, apparently.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top
Thanks gan....
Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Gandalftheredskin, reply 3


Quoting ElanaAhova, reply 2
some have suggested building the tower of the witch, then mastery, then demolishing the witch.  I have never doe it, but wonder if doing so delets the -9 diplo penalty?

 

Just tested this, and destroying the Tower of the Witch does indeed get rid of the penalty, though it seems to take a turn to update. Destroying any of the other parts, including the Forge itself, does not remove the diplomatic penalty, apparently.

 

Noted this as well, it takes a turn for game to update anything - including and not limited to border expansion - ie: I built a monument, have to wait 1 more turn to access that resource which should now be inside my borders, thus forcing me to spend production on something else for 1 turn before I can actually build it.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Ah, the joys of city planning.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

I think the design is expecting to have all the victory conditions enabled. For example Resoln Empire strives very much into it.

But anyways, no one is forcing anyone to build the Tower of Overlord. If the plan is to achieve diplomacy victory it would be very unwise to tap these few elemental bonuses. These small bonuses aren't even required for that.

I act very much alike AI. Once I see tower icons to start pop-up on score list I am very much intented to stop that. It's AI's choice (not all of the leaders rush for towers).