[Suggestion] Heroes and a double attack (not double strike as in Tarth)

So playing with heroes, I was wondering the hero and unit balance problem. Units get to become a company of 7 figures each do damage and multiply this by 7, while a hero warrior gets 1 shot (albeit with a lot of bonuses), would it be plausible to give heroes at high enough level say at level 8 or so... a double attack.

So a level 8 hero acts more like a party of 2 when attacking normally. Giving heroes a big boost at higher levels. I'm not suggesting this as a trait to choose, which I can put in myself... but learning to fight multiple targets in a group after fighting so many units at this point.

I'm thinking this would make for balancing heroes and units in the late game, when armies of 7 units become rather scary for a hero.

Obviously at level 14 they should get another attack, resulting in 3 attacks automatically... so a hero would do the damage as if they were a group of 3.

Similarly, one could add these to particular high leveled monsters, making them extra scary.

9,907 views 7 replies
Reply #1 Top

Instead of increasing the number of attacks it would be in my opinion better to:

- give decimate as a passive ability to commanders, defenders and warriors to make the paths stronger against groups

- give executioner bonus damage against heroes and single monsters to make the path stronger against single targets

- give high level monsters a high initiative to increase the number of attacks

- give high level monsters area attacks to attack multiple groups at the same time

Reply #2 Top

A second attack allows for mitigation of the miss chance in effect instead of an all or nothing you have the chance to miss and still do damage.

Reply #3 Top

Quoting Wizard1200, reply 1
nstead of increasing the number of attacks it would be in my opinion better to:
- give decimate as a passive ability to commanders, defenders and warriors to make the paths stronger against groups
- give executioner bonus damage against heroes and single monsters to make the path stronger against single targets
- give high level monsters a high initiative to increase the number of attacks
- give high level monsters area attacks to attack multiple groups at the same time

Increasing the number of attacks across the board for a champion will make them more of a threat across the board, but I think it would be more balanced. A general point of order here also if this were to be implemented (double attacks from a normal attack), this could replace give me initiative traits if they didn't want to give it to every hero. The double strike is a particular useful trait with tarth... especially if you go assassin and choose precision a couple of times. You are then accomplishing the same thing I suggest.

I would like to see it done through a different stat as opposed to a spell and automatically compute the damage as two strikes on the same unit. Decimate is a powerful ability, but I think is the wrong approach to a balanced system of having groups of 7 as 1 unit so the damage is normal * 7 vs. a champion which is normal * 1 + BUNCH OF BONUS. I would like to see it more like normal * 3 + some bonus. Making it so you don't have to min\max your champion to be effective throughout. I think there is more possibility, if they could add this into the core game.

Reply #4 Top

heroes can use the best weapons and can get the stacking initiative/attack damage enchants. heroes can crit. Heroes can penetrate most of the defenses(assassin path) with any weapon type Plus late game almost never happens from my experience.

 

and doesn't a single stronger attack go through defenses better than several weaker ones? Not sure about this.

 

I'm not saying that heroes SHOULDN'T be balanced late. just that the issue is irrelevant, and that they may be balanced a little better than you are letting on.

Reply #5 Top

Quoting WaitingOnTheGame, reply 4
and doesn't a single stronger attack go through defenses better than several weaker ones? Not sure about this.

There is talk about nerfing some of the weapons... also instead of making higher and higher bonuses... trade them out for other things. Also, if I'm (possibly) writing a senario and it so happens to have heroes fighting mutliple stacks of 7 or more, this would be a nice feature.

Reply #6 Top

Quoting halmal242, reply 2
A second attack allows for mitigation of the miss chance in effect instead of an all or nothing you have the chance to miss and still do damage.

Good point, but i think that it would be easier to implement if high level monsters get the backswing ability.

Quoting parrottmath, reply 3
Increasing the number of attacks across the board for a champion will make them more of a threat across the board, but I think it would be more balanced. A general point of order here also if this were to be implemented (double attacks from a normal attack), this could replace give me initiative traits if they didn't want to give it to every hero. The double strike is a particular useful trait with tarth... especially if you go assassin and choose precision a couple of times. You are then accomplishing the same thing I suggest.

I would like to see it done through a different stat as opposed to a spell and automatically compute the damage as two strikes on the same unit. Decimate is a powerful ability, but I think is the wrong approach to a balanced system of having groups of 7 as 1 unit so the damage is normal * 7 vs. a champion which is normal * 1 + BUNCH OF BONUS. I would like to see it more like normal * 3 + some bonus. Making it so you don't have to min\max your champion to be effective throughout. I think there is more possibility, if they could add this into the core game.

Hmmm, if units would have a base initiative of 100 and if heroes would have a base initiative of 125 the heroes would get always extra attacks, too, and it would work for physical attacks and for attacks with spells.

Assassins, defenders, warriors and high level monsters would get the second chance ability, that works like backswing, to allow a mitigation of the miss chance.

If medium sized heroes and monsters would get the evasion ability, that increases the initiative by 25 (100 > 125) and reduces the number of lost hit points (not the damage) of an attack by an enemy group by 50 % it would make them stronger against groups. If you combine the evasion ability with the decimate and second chance abilities you would get this:

 

Hero attacks a group of 4 units:

The attack misses and second chance gives the hero another attack that hits and inflicts 10 points of damage

The decimate ability increases the damage by 100 %, because the group has 4 units, to 20 points of damage

 

A group of 4 units attacks the hero:

The 1st attack hits the hero for 10 points of damage and the defense reduces the damage to 4 points

The 2nd attack misses the hero

The 3rd attack hits the hero for 12 points of damage and the defense reduces the damage to 5 points

The 4th attack hits the hero for 10 points of damage and the defense reduces the damage to 5 points

The evasion ability of the hero reduces the lost hit points from 14 to 7

Reply #7 Top

Perhaps a combination of several of the proposed solutions would be the way to make heroes be in par with trained units groups.

- Multiply hero's weapon damage with some perks

- Multiply hero's defense with some other perks

- Increase hero's initiative with a third set of perks

- Increase her's dodge with a fourth group of perks.

So as a result heroes would be more dangerous, but it wouldn't result in a desproportionated value of a single parameter, be it attack, defense, dodge... and neither would need to resort to some abilities, such as overpowered, that feel like cheating and/or cheesy.

Of course, battle oriented heroes would have a higher boost over their skills tree, and perhaps way of the defender would focus more (but not only) on boosting defense while way of the warrior would mainly boost attack and assassin would mainly boost dodge. Commanders and wizards could have initiative as their primary boosted stat.