[Balance] Charge, Tarth Double Strike. Mount count

from Elemental Forums

These powers are waay too strong.

The entire suite of unit abilities needs to be rebalanced, but the beta will be far easier to analyze if charge gets kicked the f*** out of the game.

Double strike is also way over powered, especially in combination with charge. I would suggest either making it 33% of accuracy penalty (instead of a flat 30 accuracy). Even better, I would suggest a unit ability named 'ambush' or 'find weakness' or something that has a 1 turn casting cost, then deals double damage with high armor penetration.

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Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Oh, and mounts are way too numerous. The amount per turn should be reduced by a factor of 3 or so.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Lol.  What's with people wanting to remove everything new from the game?

There's a game I think you'll love called Fallen Enchantress.  It's available on Steam right now!

 

Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Oh, and mounts are way too numerous. The amount per turn should be reduced by a factor of 3 or so.

Mounts are too numerous. Reduce their placement on the map though, seems like ive got a wolf and horse beside every city.

Charge is fine and I really don't want less traits in  the game. Just balance double strike better.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting sweatyboatman, reply 2

Lol.  What's with people wanting to remove everything new from the game?

There's a game I think you'll love called Fallen Enchantress.  It's available on Steam right now!

 

Agreed!

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting sweatyboatman, reply 2

Lol.  What's with people wanting to remove everything new from the game?

There's a game I think you'll love called Fallen Enchantress.  It's available on Steam right now!

 

?

Charge was in FE and has been broken for ages. It's just worse now that champions are under powered and double strike exists.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Stupidity10, reply 3


Oh, and mounts are way too numerous. The amount per turn should be reduced by a factor of 3 or so.

Mounts are too numerous. Reduce their placement on the map though, seems like ive got a wolf and horse beside every city.

Charge is fine and I really don't want less traits in  the game. Just balance double strike better.

 

The reduced spawn rate of horses/wargs would be a fine solution as well.

Charge is NOT fine. It is way over powered compared to every other trait that exists. Every unit should always have charge under every circumstance. It completely dominates everything else.

It might be reasonable to just change it to +3 movement, or to provide a modifier to armor as well as a bonus to attack.

 

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Sythion, reply 6

Charge is NOT fine. It is way over powered compared to every other trait that exists. Every unit should always have charge under every circumstance. It completely dominates everything else.
 

Since charge only applies on the first turn of battle, your statement is only true as long as you can always overwhelm your opponent on that first turn.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

i donty like charge personally. if you dont win on the first turn the enemy is on the offensive and probably surrounding you

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting sweatyboatman, reply 7
Since charge only applies on the first turn of battle, your statement is only true as long as you can always overwhelm your opponent on that first turn.

To be fair AI never builds quick troops, so a charging army with impale and cleave can do ridiculous damage first round. 

I wouldn't call it the most broken thing in LH, but its definitely not balanced.

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting sweatyboatman, reply 7


Quoting Sythion, reply 6
Charge is NOT fine. It is way over powered compared to every other trait that exists. Every unit should always have charge under every circumstance. It completely dominates everything else.
 

Since charge only applies on the first turn of battle, your statement is only true as long as you can always overwhelm your opponent on that first turn.

And get your ranged units far away and deal massive extra damage on the first turn with them.

With double strike, charge gives an army of 6 archers + 36 free damage on the first round.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Charge should be split into two abilities:

- Charge: + 3 movement during the first round of combat

- Ambush: + 3 attack during the first round of combat

Double Strike is balanced, because dodge is a very good counter against it.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Double strike is not balanced, and its not like the ai builds specific counters to it.  In my opinion its on the same level as cleave and impale and should be the sword special ability.  As a faction ability its completely on a different level than the other abilities.

I made a custom faction with double strike and luck and i have yet to see a SINGLE miss.

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

Why double strike when you can be a Beastmaster and Maul enemies 60 times in a row?

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top


Dear BeastMastering Doublestrikers, I'd like to you to say hello to my little friends.  They are Warg Riding Ice Mages built in a Strike Garrison.  Fire!  Pop.  Fire!  Pop.  Fire!  Pop.  Your turn.

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Trojasmic, reply 15


Dear BeastMastering Doublestrikers, I'd like to you to say hello to my little friends.  They are Warg Riding Ice Mages built in a Strike Garrison.  Fire!  Pop.  Fire!  Pop.  Fire!  Pop.  Your turn.

It's not like i can't meet your little friends with warg riding archers built in a Strike Garrison that also have double strike, mmm wonder how high one could get the initiative with all buffs and items.   Maybe even a leader that buffs initiative.  And basically kill everything before your turn runs out.

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

While I feel charge is fine the way it is, I too agree the Tarth ability is just way too powerful, especially with the Lucky trait. Every unit I create has double strike. This lets me one shot most monsters in the early to mid game. My weak pathetic starting militia is now a powerhouse. I found I only picked Champions that are of Tarth, and just stick non Tarth Champions in cities to lower unrest. Now if I could just get Tarth with henchmen... wow!

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

I think the problem is the Lucky trait and not Double Strike. The Lucky trait should increase Accuracy and Dodge by 15 and not 25 %.

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Wizard1200, reply 18

I think the problem is the Lucky trait and not Double Strike. The Lucky trait should increase Accuracy and Dodge by 15 and not 25 %.

I don't know. If you go the Commander route and stack army accuracy, you can easily simulate the Lucky trait for accuracy.

Reply #20 from Elemental Forums Top

I think a general minor problem in FE and LH is that Trait/Race combinations outside of the existing races don't seem to be well accounted for. Lucky is very powerful combined with either Tarthans (see this discussion) or Wraiths (every single unit down to pioneers having base 37 dodge is... nasty), to give some examples that instantly come to mind. I'm sure there are many more, but seeing my Wraith Kingdom with Defensive/Lucky/Tough be nigh on invulnerable stuck in my mind for some reason.