Orkulus - the best starbase against a human opponent?

Note to developers: This is about the not jump capable version of the Orkulus. The jump capable version needs to be nerfed. HARD.

Just for the protocoll. |-)



After playing my 8th ever online MP game as Vasari Loyalist and utterly crushing some poor Advent that attacked me I have come to the conclusion that the Orkulus is the best starbase when it comes to dealing with a human enemy.

Short starbase comparsion:

TEC: Very durable, lots of firepower and LVL 2 BRB do deal with anything strong enough to kill it.

How does it work against the AI? Wonderful, he keeps flying into range and even if it should die, BRB will make him pay.

How does it work against a Human? No so good, he will avoid that base like death himself. That leaves blocking the phase lane entry, for which you have to play the meh TEC Loyalists. Not to mention I find a starbase a bit expensive for something like that, too. Enemy will simple bomber spam it into oblivion.

Advent: More focus on shields and as such not as durable as TEC. Higher firepower upgrades usually not the best choice. Mass Disorientation very powerful, removes the firepower of all non capital ships and Titans from the game for 1 minute, lowers firepower of Titans and Capital ships by a descent margin for the same time. Devastating when you caught a retreating fleet with it. Meteror storm: Always requires second level for maximum damage. Unlimited AoE but poor damage per impact and comparable long cooldown. Usually need at least 3 salvos before light support ships in range die. Mass Disorientation is meant to work in synergy with Meteor Storm, which it does wonderful. However, your enemy always can flee. First Mass Dissorientation hits, making all hostile ships motionless for one minute. That guarantees at least one hit with Meteor storm, possible two.

However, after those hits, nothing stops him from flying by your starbase and kill it from afar, just like TEC.

Two meteor hits are rarely enough to destroy even nimble support cruisers. Imho BRB is better against a human player. Because against TEC I have to get my carriers past BRB first.... that is no issue with a Transcenia.

With Titans entering the fray, destroying a fully upgraded Transcenia without support is quite possible for a fleet of capital ships with Titan support. Especially the Ragnarov will make short work out it. Meteor Storm requires an absurd long ammount of time to destroy even a low level capship and so there is little the Advent can do, if he has not several other defenses buildings nearby.

 

 

Orkulus:

 

Capable of at least partially following the carriers and possessing enough firepower to destroy several enemy ships at once Like all starbases, it can be avoided but is it a lot more difficult and might force you into the range of other nasty things.

Being mobile in its gravity well also has the advantage that unlike the TEC or Advent the Orkulus can be constructed for an offensive purpose (like to support your fleet) and then after it has futfilled that purpose can act as a defense without any additional cost.

 

The mobility is a huge advantage, especialy in larger fleet battles.

 

When I attack an TEC world and it is possible to fly by the starbase, I will never enter its range again, until I have dealt with anything else in that gravity well.

 

Same for the Advent.This is also one of the reason why nobody ever uses Final Jugdement. Since an offensive place for a starbase is usually far away from its defensive position, one would have to build 2 starbases in the end.

 

Unsupported, the Orkulus in time falls to any fleet just like the other starbases. Since it doesnt have a BRB, a full frontal assault does work quite good, if you have the necessary firepower, thats it.

For a large late game fleet, that usually is not a problem.

 

Problems occur when you dont have to deal with a starbase alone but the starbase, a fully fortified world and a supporting Vasari fleet.

 

Unlike TEC or Advent you cannot choose a place of battle outside of the starbase range. Larger fleet battles take a while, more than enough time for the Orkulus to move into range.

 

Invasion fleet VS Defender fleet + starbase does rarely end well for the invader and against Vasari this is not different.

 

The nasty thing here is, that both the Orky and the defending fleet will go hunting after your carriers. And their combined changes of success are considerable higher.

 

The Orkulus is the very last thing you need when you are exchanging broadsides with a hostile fleet.

 

Being basically a very large ship, the Orkulus is still a starbase: Thats has several huge advantages over any other ship in the game:

 

  • Many abilities dont work on it
  • It has 360 degree coverage.... you can at least partly hide behind a Titan.... you cant hide behind an Orkulus.... or at least it wont make much of a difference, leaving frontal deflector dish aside.
  • It can to some extent pursuit fleeing ships.... and finish of that capital that tried to retreat
  • Capable of doing major damage to any hostile structures in the area, while not being remotly as fragile as the anti structure cruisers
  • Capable of moving into point blank range and pounding hostile ships with every single weapon (Advent and TEC weapon systems are of limited range, only missiles and psionic surge has long range, meaning that more often than not, this is all that will hit the enemy)

 

 

 

I am somewhat unsure about what an Advent is supposed to do against a digged in Vasari with an Orky. I see only bomber spam as an solution.

 

Illuminators: Too fragile and by far not enough focus firepower to destroy that starbase in any reasonable ammount of time.

Destras: High in the tech three, weapon upgrade even higher in the tech tree, low range, nearly 50 % of health in shields = vs phase missiles = death

 

Solanus: To weak unless build in huge numbers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

15,323 views 6 replies
Reply #1 Top

Sounds about right, bomber spam is just too damn viable because anything else takes way too long to kill a starbase, and especially an orky.

Reply #2 Top

Mass Disorientation very powerful,

In my experience this ability is useless due to the high frequency of Kortuls, Radiances, and Dunovs...because the ability can be interrupted, I find it is only dependable against the AI...if it doesn't get interrupted it's pretty damn good but human players generally are too smart...you are better off with meteor storm or extra SC bays...

I am somewhat unsure about what an Advent is supposed to do against a digged in Vasari with an Orky. I see only bomber spam as an solution.

Repulsion doesn't affect the Orky, but it can isolate the orky from any supporting fleet...no other faction has the ability to do that...

Biggest issue for Advent vs. Orky is that Advent have no early game answer...aeria's at tier 2 really doesn't work out so well in practice, and having no LRF makes dealing with early game SBs is a pain...you can wipe any fresh SB with disciple spam if you have enough, but you may not have enough at the time to deal with an SB at your HW or an SB at a VL's HW who rushed it because he was suicide....those SBs just come too early, and the super fast weapon upgrades are awful to deal with...

Late game, meh, everyone is in same boat, they all are going to be using bomber spam...titans make all LRFs and HCs kind of risky, and bomber spam makes HCs only more risky...it's really only the early game that it's a true problem for Advent...

Vasari have really awful early game other than the Orky...they have weakest LF and Corvette, they have weakest LRF and flak for fleet battles (though the kanrak's sniping is superb if you get PM upgrades), they can't get any early economic facilities...they basically bank on grabbing neutrals and the Orky (which is strongest early game and easiest to get)...my only problem with Orky is how fast it can upgrade its weapons...that is just ridiculous...

 

Reply #3 Top

Really the question is which starbase is best against Carriers. The orky certainly has that for the most part, though perhaps against ridiculously large numbers of bombers where any starbase will be killed pretty quickly anyways, red button on TEC starbase might be better because it will take out the bombers.

Reply #4 Top

I am somewhat unsure about what an Advent is supposed to do against a digged in Vasari with an Orky. I see only bomber spam as an solution.

The most effective way to have a strong fleet and still be able to attack the vasari is to use lots of destras(60+), guardians, and progenitor.

This can eat through a starbase quickly.  

If you are heavily invested into carriers, you will need some starfish to take out the phasic traps so that you can beat up that orkulus.

if even one subverter hits your moving carriers it could be really bad for your fleet however, so be careful.  The vasari have many ways to totally eviscerate your fleet for little cost.

Reply #5 Top


Note to developers: This is about the not jump capable version of the Orkulus. The jump capable version needs to be nerfed. HARD.

Just for the protocoll.



After playing my 8th ever online MP game as Vasari Loyalist and utterly crushing some poor Advent that attacked me I have come to the conclusion that the Orkulus is the best starbase when it comes to dealing with a human enemy.

Short starbase comparsion:



TEC: Very durable, lots of firepower and LVL 2 BRB do deal with anything strong enough to kill it.

How does it work against the AI? Wonderful, he keeps flying into range and even if it should die, BRB will make him pay.

How does it work against a Human? No so good, he will avoid that base like death himself. That leaves blocking the phase lane entry, for which you have to play the meh TEC Loyalists. Not to mention I find a starbase a bit expensive for something like that, too. Enemy will simple bomber spam it into oblivion.



Advent: More focus on shields and as such not as durable as TEC. Higher firepower upgrades usually not the best choice. Mass Disorientation very powerful, removes the firepower of all non capital ships and Titans from the game for 1 minute, lowers firepower of Titans and Capital ships by a descent margin for the same time. Devastating when you caught a retreating fleet with it. Meteror storm: Always requires second level for maximum damage. Unlimited AoE but poor damage per impact and comparable long cooldown. Usually need at least 3 salvos before light support ships in range die. Mass Disorientation is meant to work in synergy with Meteor Storm, which it does wonderful. However, your enemy always can flee. First Mass Dissorientation hits, making all hostile ships motionless for one minute. That guarantees at least one hit with Meteor storm, possible two.

However, after those hits, nothing stops him from flying by your starbase and kill it from afar, just like TEC.

Two meteor hits are rarely enough to destroy even nimble support cruisers. Imho BRB is better against a human player. Because against TEC I have to get my carriers past BRB first.... that is no issue with a Transcenia.

With Titans entering the fray, destroying a fully upgraded Transcenia without support is quite possible for a fleet of capital ships with Titan support. Especially the Ragnarov will make short work out it. Meteor Storm requires an absurd long ammount of time to destroy even a low level capship and so there is little the Advent can do, if he has not several other defenses buildings nearby.

 

 

Orkulus:

 

Capable of at least partially following the carriers and possessing enough firepower to destroy several enemy ships at once Like all starbases, it can be avoided but is it a lot more difficult and might force you into the range of other nasty things.

Being mobile in its gravity well also has the advantage that unlike the TEC or Advent the Orkulus can be constructed for an offensive purpose (like to support your fleet) and then after it has futfilled that purpose can act as a defense without any additional cost.

 

The mobility is a huge advantage, especialy in larger fleet battles.

 

When I attack an TEC world and it is possible to fly by the starbase, I will never enter its range again, until I have dealt with anything else in that gravity well.

 

Same for the Advent.This is also one of the reason why nobody ever uses Final Jugdement. Since an offensive place for a starbase is usually far away from its defensive position, one would have to build 2 starbases in the end.

 

Unsupported, the Orkulus in time falls to any fleet just like the other starbases. Since it doesnt have a BRB, a full frontal assault does work quite good, if you have the necessary firepower, thats it.

For a large late game fleet, that usually is not a problem.

 

Problems occur when you dont have to deal with a starbase alone but the starbase, a fully fortified world and a supporting Vasari fleet.

 

Unlike TEC or Advent you cannot choose a place of battle outside of the starbase range. Larger fleet battles take a while, more than enough time for the Orkulus to move into range.

 

Invasion fleet VS Defender fleet + starbase does rarely end well for the invader and against Vasari this is not different.

 

The nasty thing here is, that both the Orky and the defending fleet will go hunting after your carriers. And their combined changes of success are considerable higher.

 

The Orkulus is the very last thing you need when you are exchanging broadsides with a hostile fleet.

 

Being basically a very large ship, the Orkulus is still a starbase: Thats has several huge advantages over any other ship in the game:

 


Many abilities dont work on it
It has 360 degree coverage.... you can at least partly hide behind a Titan.... you cant hide behind an Orkulus.... or at least it wont make much of a difference, leaving frontal deflector dish aside.
It can to some extent pursuit fleeing ships.... and finish of that capital that tried to retreat
Capable of doing major damage to any hostile structures in the area, while not being remotly as fragile as the anti structure cruisers
Capable of moving into point blank range and pounding hostile ships with every single weapon (Advent and TEC weapon systems are of limited range, only missiles and psionic surge has long range, meaning that more often than not, this is all that will hit the enemy)

 

 

 

I am somewhat unsure about what an Advent is supposed to do against a digged in Vasari with an Orky. I see only bomber spam as an solution.

 

Illuminators: Too fragile and by far not enough focus firepower to destroy that starbase in any reasonable ammount of time.

Destras: High in the tech three, weapon upgrade even higher in the tech tree, low range, nearly 50 % of health in shields = vs phase missiles = death

 

Solanus: To weak unless build in huge numbers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats alot to say about orkys...

You sure love your orky..lol.

Reply #6 Top

Quoting sareth01, reply 5

I am somewhat unsure about what an Advent is supposed to do against a digged in Vasari with an Orky. I see only bomber spam as an solution.

The most effective way to have a strong fleet and still be able to attack the vasari is to use lots of destras(60+), guardians, and progenitor.

This can eat through a starbase quickly.  

If you are heavily invested into carriers, you will need some starfish to take out the phasic traps so that you can beat up that orkulus.

if even one subverter hits your moving carriers it could be really bad for your fleet however, so be careful.  The vasari have many ways to totally eviscerate your fleet for little cost.

 

Destras suffer from a certain lack of durability against phase missiles.... sure you can take it down... .but you losses are quite costly.