Buffing the radius of the halcyons Telekenetic Push for lag purposes, Kortul and Kol too!

To be honest Telekinetic push is fone its very strong. The Kortul is also the most used Battleship of them all and is very viable. The Advent really do not need any more buffs because with Corvettes there bad early game has been eliminated. The Kol does need help bu mostly antimatter help. Do you think people say "Protoss needs to have a range buff on Forcefield because when it lags it to hard to use" no not at all.

If you receive lag it just means you need a better computer or somebody is having latency problems. Also i've suggested this multiple times, if you want to fix battleships give them flak so they have a niche early game.

Hmmm well mayall comparing starcraft servers to ICO is like comparing a ferrari to a rusted up junker(no offense meant Starclad).

So no, its not anything like comparing starcraft to SOASE in that regards (even if i've compared certain aspects of GAMEPLAY in the past, I don't compare the server capabilities of the two games, for good reason).

Having a good computer goes only so far, and having "endured" the ICO servers for as long as I have(on a perfectly suitable computer), the community and I all agree that having a better ICO server is a big priority to improving online play.

Since these are very expensive we forgive Starclad for not having the best of the best, we know it takes a lot of cash.

That being said, some aspects of game design SHOULD be tweaked to deal with this inherent weakness of the company.  That is why I propose the range increases so that the time increment of successful use in a lag filled environment is increased allowing players to maintain safety of their fleet AS THE ABILITIES ARE MEANT TO BE USED.

Telekenetic push, jam weapons, and flak burst are all endgame counters to the bomber spam.  They are not OP by any means, as capital ships are slower then bombers and therefore the bombers can still dance around their dangerous zones and snipe the unprotected areas of the fleet. Increasing their effectiveness to deal with lag ensures long term balance of the races so that the "lag superior" vasari fleet wont have this unfair advantage on the other two races.

This also serves to help endgame players deal with truly monumental clouds of bombers(150+) so that long term military strategies may not only be limited by stacking tons of carriers for victory.

the more you balance endgame bomber spam with endgame abilities, the more you open up more viable paths to victory.

I don't know I have a good computer and I never have lag problems unless it is somebody else. I also have verizon. Like everyone should have. If you don't have verizon YOU DONT HAVE SHIT...

Ok back to your post. Its just balancing because of lag is just weird I do agree that there does need to be more ways to actually beat bomber spam because its so easy an idiot could do it if they knew how to macro properly. I think this lies within in the game code though. Because no matter what currently bombers in critical mass beat things that they shouldn't.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100126064158/sinsofasolarempire/images/1/13/Sins_of_a_Solar_Empire_damage_chart.png

(Im assuming this is still accurate)

If you look at this chart Bomber damage should be really bad but for some reason it just is not. Almost everything  is at 50%, capital ships are at 75% and very heavy is at 100%. I say just nerf the values that are 50% down to 25% literally make bombers useless against those types of armor. It may or may not help against the critical mass problem. If it does not increase flak damage to 125% against them. Because right now fighters are just not that good(Its not even there damage that 200% is the highest damage amount on there its just how easily they are countered by flak + bombers.

I've also recommended alot of other utility features such as flak on starbases/battleships(as you know). The severe lack of viable counters is what is the problem.

I thought that the lag of the game was only determined by the players.  I didn't know that it even went through ICO servers...

Anyways though, as I calculated for another thread, the first pass of the bombers of an Aeria can output 722 raw damage, allowing them to put out more damage per volley than any other non-titan/SB.  A fleet of twenty Aerias can deal 14.4k raw damage, something that clearly needs some sort of counter.

As someone who doesn't play MP very often, I'll just have to take your word for the fact that lag is a serious problem, but if it is, I don't really have a problem with it.  TKP and JW already have large ranges, so increasing them won't make them better earlier on (or at least not much) while the Kol is still kind of awkward, so I don't mind buffing it's range.

EDIT due to ninja:

Mayall, those numbers are no longer accurate.  Taken from the .76 Gameplay.constants file...

DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYLIGHT:CapitalShip 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYLIGHT:VeryLight 1.33333
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYLIGHT:Light 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYLIGHT:Medium 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYLIGHT:Heavy 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYLIGHT:VeryHeavy 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYLIGHT:Module 0.35
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYLIGHT:Pirate 0.25
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYLIGHT:Titan 0.45
DamagePercentBonus:ANTILIGHT:CapitalShip 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTILIGHT:VeryLight 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:ANTILIGHT:Light 2.0
DamagePercentBonus:ANTILIGHT:Medium 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTILIGHT:Heavy 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTILIGHT:VeryHeavy 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTILIGHT:Module 0.35
DamagePercentBonus:ANTILIGHT:Pirate 0.50
DamagePercentBonus:ANTILIGHT:Titan 0.45
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:CapitalShip 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:VeryLight 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Light 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Medium 1.33333
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Heavy 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:VeryHeavy 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Module 0.50
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Pirate 0.65
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Titan 0.70
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:CapitalShip 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:VeryLight 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Light 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Medium 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Heavy 1.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:VeryHeavy 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Module 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Pirate 0.60
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Titan 0.45
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYHEAVY:CapitalShip 0.6
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYHEAVY:VeryLight 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYHEAVY:Light 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYHEAVY:Medium 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYHEAVY:Heavy 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYHEAVY:VeryHeavy 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYHEAVY:Module 0.65
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYHEAVY:Pirate 0.50
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYHEAVY:Titan 0.55
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMODULE:CapitalShip 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMODULE:VeryLight 0.25
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMODULE:Light 0.25
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMODULE:Medium 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMODULE:Heavy 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMODULE:VeryHeavy 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMODULE:Module 2.0
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMODULE:Pirate 0.30
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMODULE:Titan 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:CapitalShip 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:VeryLight 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:Light 1.5
DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:Medium 1.25
DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:Heavy 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:VeryHeavy 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:Module 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:Pirate 1.2
DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:Titan 0.70
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALSHIP:CapitalShip 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALSHIP:VeryLight 0.25
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALSHIP:Light 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALSHIP:Medium 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALSHIP:Heavy 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALSHIP:VeryHeavy 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALSHIP:Module 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALSHIP:Pirate 0.90
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALSHIP:Titan 0.95
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALABILITY:CapitalShip 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALABILITY:VeryLight 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALABILITY:Light 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALABILITY:Medium 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALABILITY:Heavy 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALABILITY:VeryHeavy 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALABILITY:Module 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALABILITY:Pirate 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALABILITY:Titan 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:TITAN:CapitalShip 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:TITAN:VeryLight 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:TITAN:Light 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:TITAN:Medium 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:TITAN:Heavy 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:TITAN:VeryHeavy 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:TITAN:Module 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:TITAN:Pirate 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:TITAN:Titan 1.0

Thank you for that volt I think I may actually update that graph myself:)

But for the most part bombers are still at that .5 on a few of the ships. I still think these need to be adjusted lower. Or bombers should be removed from the game because a unit like that is stupid to balance.

 ..  You must really hate bombers..  Honestly though, if buffing the range of these abilities could be buffed to help late-game, I think that would be sufficient.

I just dont like units that are universally good at things, you'll notice I hate red button, for the most part I hate wail but I find it more dynamic than Red Button, I hate Chastic Burst, I hate Ragnarovs shotgun ability.

I don't feel any of these aside from wail bring anything dynamic into the game. Red button forces you to needlessly micro or take different paths(If they are available) to go around a starbase. And if you do not you lose your whole fleet because somebody knows how to press a button.

Bombers are universally good at everything and counter everything just because they were built.

Chastic burst/shotgun is are fleet wiping abilities that are unnaturally strong for how much damage they do making it far to easy to feed those two titans.

While Wail suffers from the same fleet wiping ability it has depth as it is counterable through many and interesting means(unless you are advent). I find all of these things toxic to the game, my only problem with wail is that there is no indicator you were hit with it.

I see..  I never have issues with things that are such so long as there is something that a player can do something about it, either by countering it or by fighting fire with fire.

Bombers IMO should be fine so long as they are counterable and critical mass should be counterable via anti-SC capitals. If we can make them counter them, the problem ceases to exist.

@ mayall

There is no point in hating things that are universally good, they are actually what make the game as good as it is.

These situationally effective abilities keep the game centered on strategy instead of tactics.  They are meant to limit options, and you must learn by playing many players WHEN YOU HAVE TO STRIKE SOMEONE HARD.

These abilities also are going to result in imprecise balance, and this would be debilitating to the game play if there wasn't such a large amount of these abilities.

By adding more of these types of abilities, you add more to the strategy of the game.  By adding more strategy, you add more choices.  By having long chains of choices, over time you increase the power level of the game so that even small late game decisions have huge consequences, so even small differences in skill level become glaring and allow for even advanced players to continually learn.

The continual learning is fun, the choices are fun.

These strategies keep people intent on knowing how to mass things and press a button to win. There really is no strategy behind them. Fleet wiping abilities are and always will be stupid in my eyes. Because they are not balanced. It makes games rule by who gets there titan first or who has the better choke point spawned by the randomly generated map builder. They really are not strategy, I know how to counter them, and countering them takes far more effort then actually using said abilities.

They stagnate the gameplay and limit far more strategies than actually create.

I'm with Sareth on this one.  There are a lot of abilities that are useful almost universally.  Meteor Storm, Debris Vortex, Flak Burst, Shield Restore, Flux Field, Finest Hour, Nano Remit, Explosive Shot, Snipe, Suppression Aura, Mass Disorientation, Telekinetic Push, Repulse, Amplify Energy Aura, Shield Regeneration, Chastic Burst, Detonate Antimatter, Missile Barrage, Ion Bolt, Phase Out Hull, Disruptive Strikes, Drain Planet, The Maw, BRB, etc.  I could keep going very easily.  These abilities aren't few and far between as you suggest.  They are common parts of the game that all are very powerful.

To try to single out Bombers, Chastic Burst, shotgun, etc simply isn't correct.  They are powerful, yes; very much so, but that doesn't change the fact that powerful abilities are common.  BRB is the primary tactic used by the TEC Loyalists now that the Nova got capped.  Chastic Burst deals less damage than shotgun and is only on this list because of Malice. which still caps its useful target count.

Beyond that, it's not really fair to say that the offensive ability of a super-offensive race's titan is too powerful because it's universally good in combat.  Likewise, a super-defensive race's scorched earth weapon is universally useful, but that doesn't make it OP either.  Numbers make things OP in almost all cases; concepts rarely do.

Bombers are powerful, yes, but you seem more intent to annihilate them via slamming them with the nerfbat so hard that no one will ever use it.  Remember what happened to Malice?  A mainstream ability that every Advent player used and loved got nerfed into the ground compared to it's previous levels of power.  Only because of Chastic Burst is it worth the AM now.

Bombers don't need to be nerfed into the ground or removed.  I'm sorry if you hate them, but doing either of those things is not the solution.  Just give critical-mass bombers a counter.  That's all that's required.  You don't need to nerf them.  Just counter them when in large numbers and the problem is resolved.  They don't need to be wiped out of the code.  I really think you're overreacting here...  

Meteor storm does not instantly kill a fleet and requires time, it is actually not comparable and i'll explain why. I think you miss the point of what is universally useful. These are abilities that have the potential to fleet wipe or are really, really bad. These are abilities that do not have a middle ground. Its not just damage abilities Pirate Mercenaries and Returning Armada neither of them have a middle ground they can only be overpowered or underwhelming. Even game AI such as pirates are this way to hard for noobs and to easy for pros things like this.

Red Button is either very, very good because right now its overpowered it can block off an entire phase lane and has no realistic counter to it. Or its really bad where its range is very tiny and its very rare you will ever use it. Chastic Burst is an AoE damage ability that does absurd amounts of damage with a short cooldown, you cannot have a middle ground for this ability, it is either you fleet wipe or you do not. Bombers either they are built in mass or they are useless. It is not unfair to single out these abilities. Mass Disorientation is in the same situation i think it is terrible, the abilities effects are not terrible but very rarely will you ever see anyone in range to be effected by it.

Repulsion is an example of just a regularly overpowered ability(read my thread) ten second immunity and to much utility but if you were to nerf its range to where it could be countered by say sabotage reactor. It would still be useful, but it would have counterplay to it. As the repulsion effect alone is still really good for its utility.

You used restore shield as an example this is wrong it does have a middleground(as it is it is balanced and on the middle ground). Missile Barrage, it can do alot of damage but it gives you two options run or disable the Marza. These are not universally good abilities because they can be countered.

@ mayall

Titans are supposed to be high powered units that make every fleet decision critical.  You should upgrade your understanding of the game before you start bashing these fun, balanced, and core abilities.

Red button is a deterrant, the developers want the TEC loyalists to actually be able to blockade themselves in.

It was buffed because the reality is, everyone who played the TEC were playing the TEC rebels for a variety of obvious reasons.

obvious reason #1 the rebel pressure strategy actually works when applied in the game, whereas the loyalist defensive capability isn't really a viable military strategy and leads the TEC loyalists to be overrun.  IMO, even with the red button upgrade, the TEC loyalists are still at a decent disadvantage.

Improving red button means that as a TEC loyalist player you have the option to REALLY blockade a critical gravity well, something that they sorely needed.

If you sacrifice your starbase to a swarm of bombers, you are actually losing, and many players won't risk this tactic unless they believe they can win in the time it takes for those bombers to come back.

The red button hasn't been buffed that much, its still countered by bombers.  It now blockades effectively, and man it will be really brutal facing it in your gravity well.

If you want to take out starbases you could also use your titan.

Since the TEC will need to spread their starbases out to blockade the gravity well, their defensive capability is compromised somewhat.

Rebels were only the #1 pick in beta A. They improved red button because they made gravity wells on larger planets bigger not because Loyalists needed help. I don't really think it sounds like you know what you are talking about in the post above because the TEC loyalist are very strong..

Well mayall you could always play me in a game and see how superior your understanding of in game strategy is.

lets see if your fingers/mouth can also walk the walk.

Just for the record, I know exactly what i'm talking about.  Loyalists get TWO starbases to allow them the ability to totally blockade a gravity well.  That is a HUGE strategic advantage that was necessary to ensure that they don't suck militarily. 

I'm online on ICO right now as Carpetbomb.

That would be a pleasure but unfortunately a 1v1 game will prove nothing. If you are calling a race that has two upgrade Militia Weaponry/Armor that can give them a +30% damage boost their territory/4(?) armor in their territory weak. You are very, mistaken.

Also concerning the two starbase upgraded, you just said that red button was buffed because TEC-L was to weak compared to the rebels and now you say that two starbases is a ridiculous upgrade.

Also I do not have a computer that will run sins right now, I've made multiple post on this before this thread if that makes you feel better.

So wait, you aren't even in beta, you aren't even actually testing the game atm?  WTF dude.  Stop spamming the forums until you actually test the game.

I am in beta. I said I do not have access to a computer at the current moment that can run it. As in I lost one of my computers... I would love to actually face you but as I said a 1v1 will prove nothing, this makes me wish this game had teams like League of Legends does.

Limit the size of the fleet to small /medium, you should not have to much lag afterwards.

but end game fleets for big games end up being autocast +  drag and pray. Zooom out and look at the ship loosing life then clicl on them to activate powers... Zoomed out seams to be better, you will loose one or two every time but the fleet will still be pushed once in a while!