Titans nearly match LRF speed

from Sins Forums

Having a titan being able to keep pace with a fleet of frigates means that LRF now truly have little military value in multiplayer. This will force simplified game play which will reduce sins replayability over the long term.  Since LRF won't be built, there is no need to build flak, and then there is no need to really build LF, except to counter a carrier spam (which isn't really a viable opener to begin with).  This overall negates the usefulness of all the frigates in the game, and all the skill in using these becomes irrelevant.  I would consider this a dumbing down of the game, as it currently is in beta 1a.

Frigates should be able to effectively retreat from a titan, at about a 2:1 speed(slower titans).  Titans should be slow, having them fast makes the only viable team strategy to have everyone early titan and get fed early by the eco slot.  This speed matching also allows titans the ability to thin a fleet by themselves, so they can't be xp starved.  A titan that can't be effectively xp starved ensures that titans will always be the main strategy.

Titans are still too easily acquired in team play.  If you just increase credit cost you won't decrease production time by much, players can still very effectively rush titan.  Titans should require much higher tech and/or much slower level progression (about 3x more XP per titan level).

Not changing these fundamentals will result in substantial harm to sins replayability long term, as a single strategy for victory waters things down and will make the game dull and repetitive.

7,398 views 14 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Titans speeds should definitely be decreased.  Slightly faster than the vas SB should do it.

 

As for cost it should be slightly more 13k vs 10k and require more xp to level. Should start at 2x and bump to 3x if more balance is needed.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

yes lrfs shoud be much faster than a titan.

 

maybe the titan should move veeery slow in a gravity well. but it has the ability of jumping around in the well like battlestar galactica with 3 mins cooldown or so.

 

 Or there shouldt be torpedoships like the one from the tecs against structure. But for Titans. Very long range (maybe the whole gravitywell). strong vs Titans but useless against the rest. 

 

Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

I agree, this would help to give the titans more sense of scale. And it would also serve as the much needed titan nerf!

 

Not with the jumping though, it seems...out of place. Also, isn't it Vasari loyalists' titan's special ability?

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting unic, reply 2
yes lrfs shoud be much faster than a titan.

 

maybe the titan should move veeery slow in a gravity well. but it has the ability of jumping around in the well like battlestar galactica with 3 mins cooldown or so.

 

 Or there shouldt be torpedoships like the one from the tecs against structure. But for Titans. Very long range (maybe the whole gravitywell). strong vs Titans but useless against the rest. 

 

 

cool down on jumping titans would be nice.  Stops people from jumping them like jack rabbits.  Anti titans ships are not needed. Would defeat the purpose of titans.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting JohnJames, reply 1
As for cost it should be slightly more 13k vs 10k and require more xp to level. Should start at 2x and bump to 3x if more balance is needed.

the titans cost enough doesnt need to be increased anymore but it should be harder to lvl them

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

While I like the leveling speed of the titans, considering they're so damn strong, and can't lose levels... Yeah, maybe only taking about 50% more exp to get to level 10 than a capital ship is a bit easy.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting XubXub, reply 6
While I like the leveling speed of the titans, considering they're so damn strong, and can't lose levels... Yeah, maybe only taking about 50% more exp to get to level 10 than a capital ship is a bit easy.

The early levels are the most overpowered.  Gaining a titan level with only 500 xp is really fast. Early XP gain needs to be nerfed, late game xp gain seems quite fine as it is.  If the 50% XP increase you recommend was applied only to the first 5 levels then yes I would agree with you 100%.

You cannot kill a level 1 ankylon titan with 55+ LRF + constant ship production in 2 factories (and a constant feed from an ally).  The ankylon will level up to lvl 4 in the process, and your whole fleet is wasted.  The ankylon would get killed if it didn't level so fast (and should be killed in that circumstance). 

The rebels titan would get killed in the same situation, yet it could attack far sooner and with even a small support fleet it would be able to quickly overcome the oppositions lrf spam (after it has gained a small amount of XP from brief clashes with the opposing force).

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

I agree with the cool down on jumps and a speed nerf. I would suggest you make titans constructable from the get go, just have the production time be 4 times longer and twice as expensive. Then have those 4 levels of research that go towards titan production be slow and costly to finish but reduce production time and cost of construction. That way pursuing a titan will either be very slow and costly, especially if rebuilding it constantly or take a lot of attention up front but make it cheaper and quicker in the long run. Honestly I think the titans build to quickly, I pop a titan and within minutes its roaring back in to the fight with the same level.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

I feel the real problem is the fact that grouped ships travel only as fast as the slowest ship.

Whats the point of LF, (which have a max speed of like what, 825?) and corvettes, when in reality they only go as fast as everything else? 

 

Except. of course. when you give them an attack command, THEN they charge ahead of everything else and get slaughtered. :P

 

but ya. LRM are slow. 500. only carrier cruisers are slower at 450. Not sure what the titan speed is, but. while ya, you should be able to run from a titan (and you can atm... i have played games where giant swarms of LRM had not a lot of issue with avoiding the buisness end of my goliath)... but you shouldnt be able to do some sort of stutterstep micro sc2 style with them.

 

But. titans are definatly not at their final balance yet preety sure. so.  I wouldnt fret to much about your precious how-many-threads-exist-about-op-lrms just yet.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Pbhead, reply 9
I feel the real problem is the fact that grouped ships travel only as fast as the slowest ship.

Whats the point of LF, (which have a max speed of like what, 825?) and corvettes, when in reality they only go as fast as everything else? 

Except. of course. when you give them an attack command, THEN they charge ahead of everything else and get slaughtered.

but ya. LRM are slow. 500. only carrier cruisers are slower at 450. Not sure what the titan speed is, but. while ya, you should be able to run from a titan

I agree ship speeds overall in the game need to be reworked, the only one that matters right now is having fast enough LF to engage enemy carriers(which could use a speed buff for all races, imo). 

Improving the "fleet" grouping feature allowing for more specific speed commands would help.

also, lrms aren't OP...they are worthless at the moment.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

A more complex fleet command system would be pretty sweet, with formations and whatnot. I always disliked the way sins handled fleets since ... it's not really very "advanced" for the game that it is.

The Titans should be slowed down when in "battle mode" which is when they have most firepower brought to bear.. or maybe, if you like, they are diverting power from thrusters to fire all weapons.

 

I think "battle mode" and "mobility mode" would be quite nice additions to the mechanics of titans. You have to switch between the two in order to maximise your effectiveness. Needless micro? Maybe... but I think it would be a good balancer definitely. An animation with the guns being stowed would be badass too and then the engines sparking up more firey than in battle mode... god it would be so hot, no pun intended.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

I wouldn't count on major changes...there is a reason why a lot of betas are open, because the developers aren't going to change core game ideas.  They are going to tweak simple things to minimize bugs.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Joppsta, reply 11
I think "battle mode" and "mobility mode" would be quite nice additions to the mechanics of titans. You have to switch between the two in order to maximise your effectiveness. Needless micro? Maybe...

Well, Stardock dev cannot put everything in the game else the modders will be witohut job in a new future :p

What you ask for was very possible before Rebellion via modding... you can create a new ability why decrease the movement rate by a factor x and increase weapons output and/or shield...

The job of stardock now is to solve major bug, like these with invisible ship or the black screen that several people encounter... balance is something for later... custom request ( can not please everyone ) is something for modders...

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

Can't wait to see what modders do when this releases, honestly I can't. After seeing the makeover distant stars gives to Trinity... the future is bright for this franchise and it's about damn time there was some sort of continuation! :)