Beta 0.61 - AI is still really derpy

what lvl ai r u playing? it might explain y its seems of easy i play again cruel and its harder then it was before the patch

To be honest, i dont really like the AI for spamming LRMs only. Maybe throw in a couple more variety of ships like frigates, carriers and cap ships.

Shouldnt combined arms be encouraged in this game? Playing against the whole bunch of LRMs isnt really fun.

I am aware that LRM spam is a pretty commonly used tactic in MP, but i think something has to be done to encourage combined arms.

It's too bad there isn't a "balanced" AI. Defenders are annoying to take out due massive amounts of mines but is no real challenge. Economist and researcher will have close to no fleet for a very long period of time. Like described in the topic you don't even need to rush them to overwhelm them. Agressor isn't too good either, he'll just send his cap ship to your home planet with some cobalts/disciples/skirmishers.

When a human player goes eco it is so he can make a massive fleet or so he can feed other players. The AI doesn't do either of that. The economist AI should lead with an akkan, try to colonize near planets and start a trade route. Then amass a large fleet consisting out of the akkan, a marza/sova a large amount of LRF and some flakk and hoshikos. Or a large force of carriers with some hoshikos.

5 hard Ai huge map multi star.

- 4 hours in game, they haven't left their home suns, I am colonizing the rest of the suns unimpeched. (Thier scout don't seam to cross either).

- One keeps attacking a single planet crashing into the twin SB with dockign booms.

- Insane amount of Novalith, insane I say! every 5 sec there is a Nava opening...

- One AI allied to me, and is under attack form a dead AI. It's cap ship (victory condition) was killed but he keeps attacking.

I generally leave it on Unfair. While the AI will never be as good as a Human player, you shouldn't have to play on mega-cheating levels for it to handle basics.  I'm not doing anything crazy, and yet even with a small resource advantage from Unfair it's failing hard at keeping up with me early-mid game.  Like I have 3 planets and the AI is just colonizing its asteroid failing.

And defender AI needs to be removed.  It's seriously just annoying to deal with, yet has no chance to ever win because it doesn't tech beyond 2-3 fleet cap upgrades.  It MIGHT work out if playing TEC loyalists now that it make superweapons, but how's Advent or Vasari defender AI supposed to win?

What I actually think needs to be done is instead of 4 AI types, there's a fixed AI type depending on sub-faction.  ie Rebel TEC is aggressive, Loyalist TEC turtles, and whatever for the new sub-factions.  This would allow the AIs to be customized to their sub-factions strengths, instead of trying to play defensive TEC rebels or economist Advent.

I Played on Cruel AI's, and what i seen it's much better then last release. But still AI cant command a pirates backups. Sometimes they ships standing on planets doing nothing. AI still cant push hard attacks on enemy positions. Sometimes AIs can join forces with others his ally, but they when pushing attack on one position and takin it they stop attacks and gona stall. They looks like saw the Pirate Queen.

I do agree on this, as a defensive Rebel is useless. The AI should be tailored to each subfaction as they play very distinctively different now.

I feel that they need to attack more though and they defend too much now. Nova cannon spam is quite annoying.

I don't suppose there is any way we could have access to 'edit' the AI to help make it better? Example: Age of Empires 2 ...

Just played a game where a defensive AI had nearly 0 normal ships, but built a titan and like 8 cap ships.  It was hilarious, but not exactly an effective strategy since there's minimal DPS output.

I think thats a pretty serious problem as they do not attack at all.

Just sit there and build lots of Nova Cannon and defence. It isnt fun playing against them.

Played around with Unfair balanced.
The AI was more active and even had a fleet but in the end it just sat at the edge of the gravity well and did nothing. They also loved to build 3 capital ships (planetery bomardment one). They could have done some serious damage to me but they just gave me enough time to build up my fleet and wipe them out.
Later on they even built a titan and send it against my fleet withhout any support. 2 Capital ships came to help but in the end they were wiped out withhout a trace. 

It's early days. At the moment they are balancing and squishing bugs. Feedback is good, but I doubt there is anything to worry about.

hello,

i would play on cruel ai, but then my ships get a handicap. so this mode will change the result of a battle and i cant use the gained expierience on multiplayer f.e. 

i would like to see a cruel ai without a handicap or boost on fleet and weapons.

For the beta you'll have to put the AI at the most difficult setting. But like others said, it's still early.

I have not seen much improvement with it at all; I am running .61 and I am still seeing capital ships that retreat and capital ships with no fleets.  This is a fleet battle game.  'Unprecedented scale' right on the splash page.  Even at 'Normal' levels, the AI should be able to put together a large fleet around 1 or more capital ships and put that fleet into action to expand and build a larger fleet.   That should be its #1 goal no matter what the setting, no matter what the 'flavor' of the AI personality until it achieves the game victory condition(s).

No fleet = No fun = No game.  No matter how many pretty graphics, units and techs you put into it.  I suggest you hard stop whatever you think you are doing that is more important than the AI and go back and fix it. 

I just got my ass kicked by a unfair ai...it was a good game.

… I hope we really do get the “new and improved AI” as mentioned as a Rebellion future

At this point I would be happy to have the AI back to the level of Vanilla sins, back when they would match you fleet for fleet, not requiring you to play above Hard for the AI to put up a fight.

Maybe there are just too many new mechanics in place from vanilla sins, too many new variables and they cant get it up to that level anymore.

just played a game on derelict vicious AI just got my ass kicked big time loved every minute of it nice improved AI lots of caps and different ships AI had mean while the game was only 38 minutes long was awesome before i know it they where hitting my home base while killin the rest of my fleet somewhere else lol time to kick there ass lol

i havent had this problem since .61

I completely agree that the AI should be tailored to fit the factions. However, it shouldn't just say "I'm a loyalist, so I'm going to turtle." I think the AI should be willing and able to change its tactics based on their knowledge of the map, with their faction's style of play acting as a sort of default starter tactic. If they see a neighbor massing ships, they should build defenses and/or counters. If they see someone expanding nearby, they should expand and create a front-line. Naturally, if there are multiple tactics being employed, they choose the tactics that most closely resemble their faction's mindset.

I also think the AI should act appropriately in team battles, regardless of faction. People like 4v4/5v5 teams, and there are roles to fill given certain positions. If an AI is surrounded by two teammates, then it should build up a serious economy and feed when asked. Likewise, if surrounded by two enemies, it should be prepared to turtle and snap at any aggressors. 

The AI's inherent ability to adapt to its situation should be the determining factor in difficulty, with extra resources happening only when it can't possibly get better without them. 

I completely believe that the devs can do this, since it's still early beta. It would make the AI much more capable and much more challenging in FFAs, while also providing a luck factor for larger team games. Certain factions will excel in certain situations (Loyalist TEC surrounded by 2 marauding enemies, Rebel TEC on the front lines), while being weaker in others (Rebel TEC surrounded by 2 marauding enemies, Loyalist TEC on the front lines)

I do agree on your opinion too. The AI pretty much ignores what are you doing now. The game is still on early beta, so im not expecting the AI to be perfect. However, compared to the vanilla Sins retail AI, even the current Rebellion AI is miles better than retail AI. I feel the Rebellion AI isnt as good as Diplomancy AI though.

However, the AI's build order seem to have some problems as i noticed them to build in this sequence:

1. Build a fairly large fleet at the beginning with LRMs and Cap ships. Defences are started to be build. If they lose their fleet on this stage, they wont rebuild them back. Leaving a few cap ships running around.

2. In the mid game, they stopped building any ship and started to tech for Titans and late game tech like Insurgence and Novalith. I think this will put them on a huge disadvantage from being steamrolled by a human player with a decent fleet. Still building defence, but i dont think its enough as they usually have a very small fleet.

3. Until they have all  the late game tech, like Titan, Novalith and Insurgence. Then, only the AI start to amass a huge intimidating fleet rather quickly.

I am not sure is this the way the AI should behave in as it leaves them very vulnerable in the mid game. However, based on my play style, where i prefer to pressure them from the beginning whenever i have the chance, i feel that i am also on slight disadvantage side when the AI techs to Novalith and Insurgence because my bases arent very well defended.

I have noticed the same trend as Cheesenium and it makes for a rather boring gameplay.

The way I usually play is expand until I reach an enemy, consolidate (Defences and economy buildings.), tech up to about halfway in the techtrees, build a massive fleet and then roll. Since I don't bother with the expensive late game techs the enemy usually only have planetary defences and almost no fleet to counter me until I get close to their homeworld. By that time my second fleet/wave have been built and is reinforcing my first wave and it's over quickly for the AI.

one thing I've seen other games do is have a "handicap" setting on top of the base AI difficulty level consisting of various percentages (80%, 90% 100%, 110% etc).  If Sins difficulty primarily affects income and some tech cheats, a handicap modifier could affect base weapon damage.  Or you could have different modifiers for income, damage, healing/restore rates, etc., and the Easy - Vicious levels could consist of base combinations of modifiers that can be changed in the game setup.

This could allow for a more granular tailoring of the AI.  For example, I typically play Unfair, but the next level is usually a bit much for me.  However, an unfair with a slight disadvantage (or me with a slight advantage) might be a more doable challenge.

I think the problem that we are facing now could be solved by slow down the teching and defence build up in the AI script, while ramp up the ships production a bit.

In my opinion, the AI should have a balance between defence, teching and ship building. The AI should constantly building up fleets, as a mobile force will do much better at defence than a few "stationary" Starbases.

Also, i do think that the AI should only build Starbase at chokes, at the borders to enemy territory or constantly attacked planets but not scattering starbases on every planet.

Just my 2 cents.