Corvettes, What to do with them?

from Sins Forums

Currently corvettes have a terrible attrition to military usefulness ratio.  Naturally this isn't a cold hard number based ratio, but a "feeling" based on experience ratio. 

In my "humble" opinion, corvettes should bleed a reasonable amount of credits to "assist" in countering a titan, but not too much!.  Also, a military player facing a stalemate will in the end not have a chance if the attrition rate/military effectiveness is too high. I would say that developers need to expand the debuff list when corvettes attack titans specifically, perhaps all corvettes will have a chance to drain antimatter and a chance to increase weapon cooldowns on titans only(all in all, more researchable corvette passive abilities would be great, 2-3 per faction, or one racial and one factional research).  Every race could have a few new abilities.  I for one think the advents only chance to deal with the ankylon titan is to stop all healing on it and drain its antimatter.  Naturally LF are going to be terrible at this, so having two passive abilities, chance to interrupt healing on titan and antimatter neutralization would be nice to have.  naturally this statement is made before testing the new advent titans and their abilities...i did read that the advent rebel titan would be "supremely hard to kill"...makes me smile.

I would say that capital ships need a place to shine(after being outdone by the titan), so make them really effective at taking out corvettes, specifically give the battleships (and the rest of the capitals to a lessar extent) a place to really shine as heavy anti corvette platforms.  This would give them a great use in the early game as well, and have an entirely new counter setup.  Capitals countering corvettes should be a relatively hard counter, hard enough that even a few seconds under fire would net in a corvette loss or two(or in the kols case, 4-5, a corvette killing machine!).  This will encourage player skill in avoiding capitals and bring back the movement dance we all know and love.

Corvettes should be moderately hurt by flak imo, a gentle counter as opposed to a soft counter if you get my drift.  Flak already has so many uses as it stands it doesn't need another reason to be built(to avoid single ship spam ftw...but with titans now a 100 flak fleet isn't so dangerous).

This would make fleet fights where the Titans target capital ships to take them out under heavy fire to weaken the enemy fleet so that the corvettes can go in with few losses.   

Certain capital ship abilities, like TK push, Jam weapons and Flak burst etc. should affect corvettes as well, but at about 50% effectiveness(rough guess), imo.

Also all cruisers shouldn't be able to hit corvettes, along with long range missile frigates.  Using scouts/lf to early counter a corvette spam would be a great way to prevent early huge clouds of them(which could deter titan production).  That or increasing their cost, which then you would run into attrition problems. Titans shouldn't kill corvettes too fast as they are "designed" titan killers to be both too small to be hit by the big guns and too big to be hurt by anti fighter/bomber flak too much.

Also, a corvette trench run on the ankylon for a one hit exhaust hole kill with the words "stay on target!" screaming into your ear would be nice.

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Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

I find Corvettes have less utility when it's just them you're fielding in battle, regardless of how many there are and I consider them to be a blended Hoshiko/Cielo frigate weight ship. What you want from Corvettes are their special effects (damage to Phase Drive/Repair Systems). I field them as part of a larger fleet so that there are higher priority targets on the field, and in large numbers, such that it is tedious for a Human player to attack them all individually. Despite their usefulness, they are low priority targets, as if you have the muscle to destroy the main fleet, you're not going to waste your time with them until the end. 

Most of all, I find that the Corvettes are their factions in a microcosm, the Loyalist Corvette is best fielded in a friendly gravity well, where it benefits from damage and health boosts, is backed up by starbases or other ships and can prevent attackers from jumping away. The Loyalist one is the reverse, and is best when used to support an attack fleet, magnifying its damage output by reducing the amount of damage the enemy can repair.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Good points all, yet the point of this thread is to really help Brad Wardell flesh out where corvettes should stand in the scheme of things(based upon his recent interview).  What you have outlined is the extremely simple corvette strategy that already exists.  I strongly feel that overall corvettes need an expanded military role to really feel like they have a proper place in the game. 

SoundPackager - Customize the Windows sound scheme
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

They are great for picking up chicks if they are convertibles and you're a good looking young man.

 

:-"

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

from what i've seen you don't even have to be that good looking for that trick to work :)

Now back on topic, what do you think about the post sinperium?

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

dawn of victory has had useless corvettes in groups of 500+ for over a year in base sins

we demand recompense

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

They have potential, unfortunately, we are already seeing "corvette spam".  Very powerful if played right but hard to get right as they are at the moment.

Giving corvettes a "dodge" ability against titans would be nice.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

i wonder if there will be more than one type of corvett for each race

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

I feel personally that corvettes (or as I think of them, tiny ships piloted by methzerkers looking for a speed high, or just methzerkers) have a lot of strength in early game expansion and their ability to fight everything is extremely useful. Strangely I have the suspicion that with my tactics I might find it effective to drop carriers altogether. They streak in and out of enemy firing ranges and seem very durable as a result. But then again, I am 20 minutes in.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

are you all assume corvettes are supposed to counter titans?

 

i think that is a very bad assumption to make.

 

think more along the lines of mutalisks, i think.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Corvettes as they are create a lag problem online that will be exploited.  We are saying corvettes should have a way to ASIST in countering titans.  As it is they don't do enough for their cost (and i'm factoring lag into this cost).

Titans should be able to be brought down through good fleet coordination, and having corvettes that help a fleet tie them down and weaken their defenses would be a very big help in dealing with them.

Also, here is an updated idea ported over from another corvette thread.

This is a great idea, but instead of having a carrier being able to carry corvettes, why not have them in a squadrons of 10 when built from the factory, the models made smaller, and have them controlled like you would strike craft?   This would mean that instead of being replenished by a carrier they would get replenished by being in a friendly gravity well.

This would make them excellent attrition units, allowing you to retreat squads off titans and get FREE replenishment of forces in a friendly gravity well while the titan still has pressure maintained on it.  In this way over time you could harass the titan down 

Replenishment should take some time, say 15 seconds per corvette.

The replenishment would be reduced by 50% if there are enemy forces in the gravity well.  All the elements are already in the game to make this possible, I think this is a completely doable solution that would reduce online lag.

A squad of 10 corvettes would cost 10 logi.  Give corvettes some more unique abilities and you have a fun starting unit that would make the early game VERY action oriented.  

 

 

 

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Pbhead, reply 9
are you all assume corvettes are supposed to counter titans?

I don't really know where this assumption came from either. I need to do more testing, but it seems to me corvettes were intended to be the better counter to bombers while titans weren't given a strict counter. Right now capitalships and your own titan are about your only chance, but I think heavy cruisers are an ideal choice, they don't do a whole lot that other ships can't, they are high up the tech tree and have a very hard counter in the form of bombers. I suppose the other option besides HC and Corvettes would be the under appreciated light frigate, and as a tier 0 unit would reduce the impact of titan rushing, though that may not be a good thing, as that would just mean titans would always be accompanied by LRFs.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

Goa and Pbhead, corvettes countering titans is not an assumption, its a suggestion.

As it is corvettes need a bit of work to be made effective at SOMETHING.  From what games i've played I have seen no use for them at all, since you need every bit of firepower you can muster to take out a titan. 

I played against specter today where his ankylon took sustained dps from a starting swarm of 56 LRM and 15 LF and I had feed from two factories as well.  This thing killed them all and levelled to lvl 4(wow, thats really skill based...).  If I had build a corvette swarm I wouldn't have had even a small chance in hell.  There is no real reason to build corvettes except to achieve a short term debuff on the enemy titan (the duration lasts as long as your credits hold out).  So you pay a lot to put a measly debuff on a titan.

Corvettes don't have much military use so therefore they are a waste of resources.  Corvette rushes are okay I suppose, but they will get dominated by a cheaper force of LF/LRF/Scout.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting sareth01, reply 2
Good points all, yet the point of this thread is to really help Brad Wardell flesh out where corvettes should stand in the scheme of things(based upon his recent interview). 

Just pointing this out, but Brad isn't part of Ironclad, and thus, to my knowledge, has no input in Sins development. Brad is a part of Stardock- since he's the CEO- but he's not a part of Ironclad.

I'd have to go back and check, but the interview I *think* you're referring to was actually with one or both of the Frasers (brothers?), who are the primary devs in SoaSE.

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Whiskey144, reply 13
Just pointing this out, but Brad isn't part of Ironclad, and thus, to my knowledge, has no input in Sins development. Brad is a part of Stardock- since he's the CEO- but he's not a part of Ironclad.

I'd have to go back and check, but the interview I *think* you're referring to was actually with one or both of the Frasers (brothers?), who are the primary devs in SoaSE.

The thing is Stardock is doing all of the heavy lifting on Rebellion, and Brad has done some of the videos like a graphics preview, so he is involved.

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

LETS JUST BE NICE AND CONGRAGULATE EVERYONE THAT WORKS ON THIS AMAZING BETA!!!! :D

Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top

oh my bad on the who's who details, Sorry dudes i don't work with you :).

It was good to see a face though, you should give yourselves more exposure as you guys are rock stars, imo.

LETS JUST BE NICE AND CONGRAGULATE EVERYONE THAT WORKS ON THIS AMAZING BETA!!!!

We are being nice...the devs asked for feedback and we are providing it. 

Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top

Does the game really need Corvettes?  I'm not sure what role they are supposed to play that isn't already played by other ships or strikecraft.  The biggest concern is that they won't be merely harmless to the game, but that they can cause lag.

Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top

Well yes Dirty, that is also a choice that could be made.  I feel that it would be unpopular with the developers as they have  most likely spent a lot of time on designing and incorporating them into the game.

I would say that if corvettes stay as is they are irrelevant and it would be better they weren't in the game at all.

Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting DirtySanchezz, reply 18
Does the game really need Corvettes?  I'm not sure what role they are supposed to play that isn't already played by other ships or strikecraft.  The biggest concern is that they won't be merely harmless to the game, but that they can cause lag.

 

I'm guessing they was added as a counter to titans and possibly starbases. Since this is a beta they might yet be useful in that role or some other but as it is now I wouldn't miss them.

Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top

The Advent and Vasari corvettes have some nice passive abilities with them, that might actually change your opinion towards them. That's all I will say for now... :grin:

Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Teun-A-Roonius, reply 21
The Advent and Vasari corvettes have some nice passive abilities with them, that might actually change your opinion towards them. That's all I will say for now...

 

So I won't escape the corvette spam? Gah!

Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Ravagus, reply 22
So I won't escape the corvette spam? Gah!
Well if the dev's make them really horrible after an unexpected balance tweaking patch or two, maybe they will never be seen in multiplayer at all. :P

Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Teun-A-Roonius, reply 23

Quoting Ravagus, reply 22So I won't escape the corvette spam? Gah!Well if the dev's make them really horrible after an unexpected balance tweaking patch or two, maybe they will never be seen in multiplayer at all.

 

You're cruel. Giving me hope that they'll be an tickable option.;)

Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top

imo corvetts are purely a means of increaseing fleet surviveability.  a slew of corvetts in a fleet dosn't increase the dps compared to equal amounts of lrm's, Carriers, or concentrated light frigets with buffs. nor do they "tank" like capitol ships or hevy crusers.  there power is in there cost (wich i think could be lower) and there mobility. 
they do not buff or heal. 


in a recent game i built a small group of Corvetts erly game and sent them against a neutral planet's millitia.  that fight whent on forever.  The corvetts wern't doing much damage, nor did they take much, the fight just went on and on and on.  That is there strength if they are tweaked a bit.

The two tweaks i suggest are

1.  change the corvets to have larger attack patterns (move them farthur from there targets after every run) ensureing that they leave their targets fireing range. (this would lower corvett dps even more)

2.  as an ability with a long cooldown, make corvetts agro whatever ship they attack so that their target is forced to attack the corvett and chase them. 

 

in that way a large fleet in formation can be disrupted and taken advantage of.  for example: send a group of corvets against the lrm's in the enemy's rear.  The lrm's stop attacking crusers,command ships, titons and focus the corvets (which take forever to kill) and BAM, you have introduced chaos to the artillery increaseing your main fleet's surviveability and removeing the enemy's teeth.  send corvetts against a titon and lure it away from its attendent fleet, or away from your lrm's which then focus it.  send corrvets against planet bombers to distract them from seige, or hold a group of corvetts in resurve for planetary defence while your feets are on the offence.  you could use them in a gurrilla fashion and pull carriers from an enymy fleet about to jump, stranding them in a gravity well.

corvetts could give players a way of manipulateing eachother, increaseing the need for planning an engadgement ahead opening up stratigic depth.

  insted of jumping your whole fleet into the battle you might hold back your seig units and corvetts. your main fleet engadges the enemy, you wait for the enemy corvetts to commit to your main fleet and then you jump in the seige units to bomb the planet, useing your corvetts to distract whatever goes after the sege frigets.