Antorak Marauder Suggestions

Two ability tweaks

from Sins Forums

I'm aware that the Antorak is a solid ship: Phase Out Hull can either cancel a channeled ability, interrupt a phase jump, or temporarily take the pressure off a friendly ship that's being focus-fired.

Likewise, Distort Gravity is quite good, but I have two problems with it:

  1. It tends to end before the ships of a large fleet position themselves for a group phase jump, causing them to reposition themselves at a shallower position in the gravity well.  If you re-cast the ability, the ships reposition themselves AGAIN
  2. It doesn't always envelope the fleet

My suggestion: nerf its benefits by 25% at all levels and make it a permanently-active aura; increase its range from 5000 the 8000 (the same range as the Akkan Battlecruiser's Targeting Uplink Aura).

My logic here here is based on probability: because the ability is active at most 75% of the time, you are effectively getting 75% of the benefits. Why not just give the player 75% of the benefits 100% of the time instead of 100% of the benefits 75% of the time?

Current values are as follows:

  • Range: 5000
  • Max Speed: +33%/66%/100%
  • Max Acceleration: +50%/75%/100%
  • Phase Jump Departure Range: -8%/-16%/-25%
  • Phase Jump Inhibitor Field: -100%

Adjusted values:

  • Range: 8000
  • Max Speed: +25%/50%/75%%
  • Max Acceleration: +25%/50%/75%
  • Phase Jump Departure Range: -6%/12%/18%
  • Phase Jump Inhibitor Field:
    • -33%/-66%/-100% -OR-
    • -25%/-50%/-75%

My only beef with Subversion is that it has no effect on a planet that is building neither structures nor ships. Not every planet will have a frigate factory, and you will only encounter planets that are building structures in the early game. That said, neither does Embargo, unless players choose to deliberately hunt down the trade ships that can no longer leave the system

Consequently, I feel that there should be a small economic component to Subversion, approximately equal to Embargo's.

Since Goa kindly pointed out that Embargo steals planetary tax income at a rate of 33/66/100% over 60/90/120 seconds, I feel that Subversion should have an equivalent effect over 300 seconds

Current values:

  • Ship build time: +50%/+100%/+150%
  • Structure build time: +50%/+100%/+150%
  • Duration: 300

Adjusted values:

  • Ship build time: +50%/+100%/+150%
  • Structure build time: +50%/+100%/+150%
  • Tax income rate: -20%/-40%/-60%
  • Duration: 300

That might do it.

Discuss?

14,131 views 4 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Phase Out Hull can either cancel a channeled ability, interrupt a phase jump, or temporarily take the pressure off a friendly ship that's being focus-fired.

It is pretty underrated, the only real bad thing about is that I think only the duration increases with its level, the damage or healing it does is the same at all levels, thus not giving you much reason to advance it.

Why not just give the player 75% of the benefits 100% of the time instead of 100% of the benefits 75% of the time?

Because that doesn't take into account the antimatter the ability currently uses up. I rarely use marauders so I don't remember just how it works, but if you're using this as a quick retreat, you probably should disable group phase jumping anyways.

My only beef with Subversion is that it has no effect on a planet that is building neither structures nor ships. Not every planet will have a frigate factory, and you will only encounter planets that are building structures in the early game. That said, neither does Embargo, unless players choose to deliberately hunt down the trade ships that can no longer leave the system

Biggest problem is that unless it got changed and no one payed attention, the marauder has to stay in the gravity well while this is in effect. If it is a sabotage team why would they disappear when the marauder leaves?

Since Embargo effects only trade centers and refineries,

Embargo barely affects trade centers and refineries. It only keeps the trade ships from moving, but the owner will still get income from them until they are destroyed. Its main influence is on tax income, since 30/60/100% of tax income gets transferred to you, which is even better than reducing its income.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Always a pleasure to get replies from you, Goa.

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1
It is pretty underrated, the only real bad thing about is that I think only the duration increases with its level, the damage or healing it does is the same at all levels, thus not giving you much reason to advance it.

At level 3, this ability provides ten seconds of inaction -- pretty substantial for a capital ship. And its cooldown is next to nonexistent -- you can basically use this thing to either lock down or save multiple targets.  It requires some micro, but rewards your micro immensely.

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1
Because that doesn't take into account the antimatter the ability currently uses up. I rarely use marauders so I don't remember just how it works, but if you're using this as a quick retreat, you probably should disable group phase jumping anyways.

The antimatter cost is an issue, but if you provide an incentive to use Subversion, there you have a competing ability.

If implemented, a direct comparison to the Akkan Battlecruiser is actually possible:

Akkan:

  • Colonize (used only on vacant planets)
  • Ion bolt (circumstantial use: presence of critical targets that need to be interrupted)
  • Aura (passive)
  • Armistice (circumstantial use)

Marauder:

  • Subversion (used only on occupied planets)
  • Phase Out Hull (circumstantial use: presence of critical targets that need to be interrupted or phased out)
  • Aura (passive)
  • Phase Gate (circumstantial use)

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1
If it is a sabotage team why would they disappear when the marauder leaves?

Because if they didn't they'd last forever? :P

Incidentally, I find the ability icon, which invokes images of Vasari ninjas, highly amusing. :grin:

On a more serious note: we'll assume that the Vasari strike teams are too valuable and highly trained to throw away; hence, the Marauder retrieves them before it leaves the system. But this IS an oversight, because you can hardly expect a Marauder to remain in a system for 5 minutes!

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1
Embargo barely affects trade centers and refineries. It only keeps the trade ships from moving, but the owner will still get income from them until they are destroyed. Its main influence is on tax income, since 30/60/100% of tax income gets transferred to you, which is even better than reducing its income.

D'oh!

I had completely forgotten that Embargo stole planetary income (it's been a while since I used it).

I'll have to revise my suggestion based on a comparison with Embargo.

Thanks for catching that, Goa.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Frostflare, reply 2
At level 3, this ability provides ten seconds of inaction -- pretty substantial for a capital ship. And its cooldown is next to nonexistent -- you can basically use this thing to either lock down or save multiple targets. It requires some micro, but rewards your micro immensely.

Oh don't get me wrong, if you just want to take ships out of the fight this is an awesome ability. But against enemy ships at least I think the damage should increase per level, because unlike ion bolt or reverie you're also making the target invulnerable, which is a pretty big bonus to the target (and if passive regeneration isn't disabled it also gives them a bit more time to repair).

Quoting Frostflare, reply 2
If implemented, a direct comparison to the Akkan Battlecruiser is actually possible:

Akkan:

Colonize (used only on vacant planets)
Ion bolt (circumstantial use: presence of critical targets that need to be interrupted)
Aura (passive)
Armistice (circumstantial use)

Marauder:

Subversion (used only on occupied planets)
Phase Out Hull (circumstantial use: presence of critical targets that need to be interrupted or phased out)
Aura (passive)
Phase Gate (circumstantial use)

True, though the Akkan has perhaps the best antimatter management in the game. I'd rather the Marauder simply have abilities worth risking running out of antimatter on but oh well, its not bad I suppose.

Quoting Frostflare, reply 2
Because if they didn't they'd last forever?

Incidentally, I find the ability icon, which invokes images of Vasari ninjas, highly amusing.

Precisely my point good sir, Ninja's don't need escape ships. They can just transform themselves into space ponies and fly away once the mission is successful.

Seriously though, the reason subversion isn't used very much is because you can rarely take advantage of that 5 minute duration. Either its a weakly defended planet that you'll take over soon anyways, or its highly contested and you'll probably need to retreat your caps before 5 minutes in a competitive game (though granted, right now you might get away with it because people might not think an Antorak is a threat).

A small economic effect might be nice, but it would be awesome to combo subversion and distort gravity to allow a lone Antorak to get behind enemy lines and quickly subversion multiple planets IMO. Of course a starbase would prevent that pretty easily but still, but it would be nice if these abilities could severely punish a player who neglects to leave his rear even slightly fortified.

Quoting Frostflare, reply 2
I had completely forgotten that Embargo stole planetary income (it's been a while since I used it).

Its basically the only reason it gets used so often in multiplayer.

Quoting Frostflare, reply 2
Always a pleasure to get replies from you, Goa.

I guess I'll take that as a compliment and hope its not too sarcastic. ;P

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 3
I guess I'll take that as a compliment and hope its not too sarcastic.

I wasn't being sarcastic in the least. I realize, of course, that there's no way to tell via text (since you can't hear me, and each clarification can be interpreted as an additional level of sarcasm), but your contributions are always on-point and address important details. You never use two words when one will do (which is one of my failings).

You have a point about Phase Out Hull: it IS a lot of time for hull repair or regeneration, but that cuts both ways, since the ability gives YOUR capital ships time to repair, as well.

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 3
Seriously though, the reason subversion isn't used very much is because you can rarely take advantage of that 5 minute duration. Either its a weakly defended planet that you'll take over soon anyways, or its highly contested and you'll probably need to retreat your caps before 5 minutes in a competitive game (though granted, right now you might get away with it because people might not think an Antorak is a threat).

A small economic effect might be nice, but it would be awesome to combo subversion and distort gravity to allow a lone Antorak to get behind enemy lines and quickly subversion multiple planets IMO. Of course a starbase would prevent that pretty easily but still, but it would be nice if these abilities could severely punish a player who neglects to leave his rear even slightly fortified.

Good point. Perhaps the ability could continue for 150 seconds after the Marauder leaves the system?  That way, you always get half your money's worth out of it.