The Carrier Capital Ship - SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN BUFFED!

How about you learn to defeat the old 2 capital carrier spam with an actual stragetic decision and tactical movements?  Even a mid level sporadic player here can defeat that and the old SB in the homeworld tactic with Advent. 

A.K.A Col.BBQ

I can defeat them easily, but some people can't. But the point of this topic is other capital ships are inferior as a  first capital ship due to the over buffing of the carrier capital ship. There was variety before, now there isn't.

[_]-BlackHawk

His Majesty the Hawk

I would have to agree the Blackhawk. The game should be balance so people use a multitude of different ships instead of the newest patch spam.

However, I would have placed this request in the Patch thread. I doubt the devs check here all that often.

To me personally the carrier is just about right. Its the other caps that need help. Lets give them a bit of a buff.

I agree that all capital ships need a buff, but too make it easy, I would rather nerf one capital ship then buff the other four.

True, it would be easier but the biggest issue for this game (IMHO) has always been the weakness of the capitals. Many modders (myself included) have taken the time to work through buffing and balancing the capitals with much success. It can be done. In Distant Stars capitals are stronger. The result is now in MP games capitals last longer, help the fleet more and force the player to be more selective other then the spam capital carrier routine.

All the theatrics and poor spelling aside found in the thread, i believe that the point being made here is for one, incorrect, and two, exaggerated.  You really think the only thing people use are carrier caps?  Let me point out a few examples of some of the better players on ICO and their tendencies.

1. Auqia as TEC:  Does he start with a sova?  No, he starts with an akkan, and hes going to beat you with it even if you make carrier caps.

2. Howthe? as Vasari:  Does he start with a Skirantra? No, he starts with an egg and has proven time and time again against feckless bia players that the egg is more than a competent starting ship.

3. As awful an example as this is.. chose as vasari:  Sure you know hes going to make double siege caps (vulkoras) but that doesnt mean that about 60-65% of the players on ICO will automatically lose to this strategy.

If you seriously think that "OH EVERYONE GOES CARRIERS AND YOU NEVER SEE ANYTHING ELSE WAHHH" i would suggest that you investigate what i believe are the two most likely causes:

A. Your micro is too pitiful to appreciate the good things about other capital ships.  One of the caps you never mentioned was the Dunov which i believe to be the hidden gem of the capital ship fleet in sins.  EMP charge is awesome.

B. You just got beat by a DT smurf 2 games in a row who used carrier caps while you made idiotic choices such as a rapture when you had no strikecraft, or possibly a revelation just for shits and giggles.

flameflameflameflame.

It is. Give it a little love (AM and HP increase) and I am sure it will be used more. I hope.

Naw, just give Magnetize new targeting so it target friendly units. Bam pure win.

Carrier capitalships were absolutely pitiful before whatever patch first buffed them. I agree with Ryat its best for the rest to be buffed rather than nerfing the carriers back to obscurity. Starting with the battleships, which should be the ideal carrier cap counters.

Also, I would say that the Sova isn't that over powered. Early game its a beast but none of its abilities scale well.

 I have played with Auqia 3 times, and I have seen him spam out either two haly's or two skinitras. I need to play with him more.

I don't tend to watch what howthe's first capital ship is.

Typical Starplayer turning this into a clan war and flamming thread. I rarely see other capital ships being built because Capital Carrier ships are too powerful early game. I can say with certatinty that 80% of players on the map build a Carrier Capital ship.

And please Starnoob, The only time you tend to win games is when its either stacked in your favour due to DT noobs hiding under smurf names or when you cry for 'FEEEEEED'. I don't think you have ever won a game which didnt involve stacked teams or crying for feed.

(by the way, I would like to point out howthe and san tsu do not smurf).

 Speculation is what causes the metal and crsytal markets to fall. Please starnoob keep this to yourself.

This thread is only here because I want to hear your suggestions, thoughts on the matter

Is the mod avalaible on deplomacy? would like to try it out.

Isn't that the point of eco players? To feed the larger powerhouses?

If Starplayer is on the line, then why shouldn't he be asking for feed from players in the pocket?

If you flame other peoples' thoughts, then why have this thread in the first place?

Maybe you should change the thread title to "Blackhawk's Criticism Thread"

I do however agree that the Carrier problem is back, and not just with the Vasari.

Any suggestions you want to put forward?

-Give the carriers a different armor modifier.

All ships do 1.5x damage to them.

-Go back to 2 squadrons, but give the squadrons extra armor and damage, just like in Distant Stars.

I am sorry if I offended anyone...

I don't think it's so much that the carrier caps need to be nerfed as it is that the other 4 cap types need a small buff.  Arguably, they all need to be a little more durable than they are now.

I threw some suggestions out.

Lol carriers are not overpowered, if carriers win the day its because they weren't properly countered. You could build...i don't know...FLAK, or spam lrm/lf and eventually kick the carrier out of the grav well, or spam carriers to kill the air support, or have a cap that is anti strike craft....its easy to counter...oh, and build some repair structures at your HW, which is always a good idea anyways...

Spam ships to get some nice early cap sniping power and have a disabling capital ship (akkan, egg, reverie alien head) to stop that carrier in its tracks.  You can warp it out and wait for the kiting carrier to come around and then keep its ass locked down...  carriers are useful, and great against caps in the early game.  But they aren't overpowered. 

If someone gains the advantage by asking for feed, and their team wins, it's a good tactic.

I don't see the problem. That's what feed is SUPPOSED to do!

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/335474

There you go.

Personally I was always of the opinion that carrier caps never needed buffing to begin with.  They were never underpowered.  I regularly saw them used prior to the buffing they received.  I know for myself I regularly built a halcyon as my 2nd cap.  It is still true that most build carrier caps as first cap and usually 2nd cap as well due to their relative power to the other caps.  You can point out examples obviously of someone building different on occasion but the majority build carrier caps.  Star gives the exceptions rather than the general rule.  The fact that carrier caps are the overwhelming favorite on ICO attests to the power relative to the other caps.

[_]-Greyfox

DIPLOMACY!

Like i've told all the idiots in your clan, put up or shut up, i'm down for a 1v1 at any time on any map. You let me know when you'd like to.

Ok, yes, I pretty much always pick the egg; however, if I know I am going to rush, I will use a carrier cap.  I was against the buff to carrier caps and still am, but my reasoning is much simpler than everyone else's.  From my point of view, in the beginning of the game, you are trying to maximize DPS/$, and quite simply, carrier caps offer the highest DPS of any capital ship early on.  Now I know why the buff was made, mainly to make carrier caps relevant post v1.1 in vanilla sins where carrier cruisers went from 1 to 2 squads, but I agree that generally carrier caps outshine other caps in the early game now.

I agree with many others that the real solution here is to make the other capital ships better.  I think abilities have been balanced pretty nicely, so I think the only real thing that really needs changed is DPS: again it's the DPS/$ argument.  Also, in general, I think cap ships need to be grow a little tougher late game to make them more relevant and last a little longer in a fight and not just get sniped in one LRF volley. 

That's my two cents.  And again, I still think the egg is a good starting cap, but it's a matter of play style.  If you rush, you ought not get the egg.

Also, for the record, embargo is so broken.  There should be a 15 minute penalty on that ship before you can use that ability.  It completely imbalances the early game, but I digress.