Greatest Strength and Weakness of TEC, Advent, and Vasari

TEC--can develop the best economy in the game, cheap units that can be spammed out but are not particularly durable, overpowering exploding starbase ability, overpowering Level 6 Marza missile barrage.

Advent--can build the most powerful, durable and dangerous fleet in the game because of synergy between units and excellent capital ships.  Also possesses the best long range missile frigate (the Illuminator), one of the best support ships (Guardian), and the best cultural abilities in the game but has a crappy super weapon and the worst trade abilities.  

Vasari--possesses the best starbase in the game which can be used offensively but this race suffers from having the most expensive ships.  Has the best mobility research and can build a strong economy but not one as good as the TEC's.  Benefits from being able to capture neutral extractors with scouts and can have, arguably, the best strike craft because of phase missiles.  Has an early-game advantage because only three labs are needed to be able to produce its LRM and colonize ice and desert planets.  This race also benefits from needing only two military labs to be able to build starbases.  Has an excellent support ship in the Subverter.  Can get rolled by Advent battle balls and TEC swarms.

I guess I didn't identify the best strength and weakness, so I'll try again.

TEC--best strength--Level 6 Marza.  While a human opponent with a Level 6 Marza is not insurmountable, its presence will change what you need to do in order to counter it.  (Stop building frigates and go with heavy cruisers, make a capital ship that can interrupt the missile barrage, build 30 bombers to kill it, etc.)

TEC--biggest weakness--Frigates and cruisers are mediocre.

Advent--best strength--Synergy between units and the ability to form a Battle Ball.

Advent--biggest weakness--(Tie) Lacks civilian research to increase trade income and its ships have lighter hulls, which is an issue against Vasari phase missiles.

Vasari--biggest strength--(Tie) They have the best starbase in the game and are best for capturing neutral extractors.

Vasari--biggest weakness--expensive ships.

Battle Ball?

TEC - Strong at colonization (as of most recent patch), excellent hull repair capabilities, cheap units, and a relatively well balanced economy.  Lacks capital ships that are good at disabling enemy capital ships and buffing their own fleet.  Lots of mediocre units and upgrades.

Advent - power; sheer power.  Their units are absolutely crazy in battle, and only get better with all those wonderful fleet supporting capital ships and the guardian cruiser.  Fortunately they're a little on the weak side in terms of their long-term economic prospects.

Vasari - a little on the weak side in terms of combat power, but their utility is beyond match.  Between phase stabilizers and phase missiles alone they are in a great position for mid-late game dominance.  Taking neutrals deserves mention, even if it's been noted to death.  Their starbase is also awesome, but usually you can't put all your eggs in one grav well.

Battle Ball = overly-synergizing Advent abilities (cap and frig) that allow them to essentially bitch slap you while holding your ships helplessly at bay, while reinforcing and regenerating the shields of their entire fleet to a massive degree so that it takes forever to damage them (by which point you will have likely sustained heavy losses).

It's beatable... but sometimes it takes a frackin' super weapon (for the Vasari).

Repulse is an AOE effect right? I can't remember - I haven't played the Advent in months (I'm a Vasari purist). But I seem to remember that one Guardian can stop the channeling effect of several of my Subverters... so I'm guessing AOE? If so, that shit should SO be single target!

Is that a crack at my Jarrasuls? Because I beg to differ!

Tec: Obvious use of research/abilities/ships. The ease which people can use this race is well known; making it the race of choice for most new players and veteran players alike.

Weakness: jack of all trades, master of none. Also, a suprising amount of players feel like they'll be garunteed the best of everything with this race; this isn't always the case. Also, it seems like many people rely on missle barrage, which is easily counterable if you know what you're doing.

Advent: The best starbases in long drawn-out games. The best fleet cohesion and abilites out of all the races. Players who use this race and know what they're doing are pretty much unbeatable in the long run (flame flame flame). Also, they have the best maximum alliegance out of all the races, late game you can potentially have better eco than even tec players if luck and skill is on your side. Mid-game you can also have the beset eco if you are isolated with enough resources to devote to this goal. Caps can potentially gain more xp per kill, and are also immortal late game w/ ressurection. But most of all, the shield mit. for this race is awesome.

Weakness: They shine in mid-late to late game; it hardly matters that you have the best potential fleet if you get taken out in the first half hour. The super-weapon pales in comparison to the other races. They're also hard to "get the hang of" for some people. Replacing your units early game isn't an option if you want to go eco. Early game you're a sitting duck.

Vasari: Cap superiority, good eco, and shield bypass. The potential initial expansion speed of this race is insane. Phase lanes allow the greatest mobility. They can really outpace everyone in the early game if the map favors them.

Cons: They really rely on neutrals. Also, they tend to be the the least used race due to the level of exp. players need in effectivley use this race. Also, the strike craft are mediocre unless you really know what you're doing.

I completely disagree with what anteachtaire said about Advent's weakness.  In my opinion they are the best (or at least good) early game because their LFs and Scouts are so cost effective and spammable, as well as your colonizer cap giving you cheap expansions.  They certainly aren't "sitting ducks", I'm not even sure how you could make that statement about Advent's early game.

  These have been some good points, and so far, i can't say there's anything outrageously untrue enough to complain about...  Though i don't really understand why everyone says the Vasari rely of Neutral Grav Wells.  Is it because of the resource asteroids?  Because those seem to benefit everyone the same...

  Please keep them coming!

Vasari have an easier time capturing the neutral extractors as their ability to capture them is on their scout rather than colony frigate.

Jep.  They can easily travel across the entire map or to other stars, quickly, capturing the neutrals.  A colonizer frigate would die as soon as it attempted to pass through two planets in a row that were guarded by militia.

Yes, to both of you, but i was saying they benefit everyone equally.  The Vasari get them easier, but they are no more reliant, they're just a perk of being Vasari.  It's not like Vasari would lose without them.

Some would argue they would use without them though.

I'm just saying that as a nod to the people who are still starting to learn how to play this race; some of my buddies  might be really good at early game with the TEC just cause its so obvious. But when they play as the Advent their early game skills just fall apart, poss. because they try doing the exact same thing they'd do as TEC.

And as for the whole neutral thing, I think what most people mean is capturing those mines helps offset the higher unit cost.

In my experience, the trick with Advent is to just avoid upgrading your economy and being an aggressive expansionist to get your income instead.  Your resource upgrades (for metal and crystal) are hideous compared to the other races and you have to get 3 labs just to access both types!  I try to avoid taking over Ice and Fire planets if at all possible for this very reason, so that I can avoid building those 2 labs.  If I do build those 2 labs, I leave it at that - 2.  Then you can at least get your Culture center and increase your planet's allegiance's to significantly boost your income or even use it offensively against your opponent.

Otherwise it's just pure warfare centers for me.  You can bully your enemy around early game (especially Vasari) and take asteroids/planets close to their base.  If your ships are more numerous AND more upgraded than theirs, you should have no problem winning the battles.

But anybody who goes an eco strategy with Advent, I feel very very sorry for.

I guess I understand about your friends though.  Advent to me represents an extreme playstyle/necessity to develop your fleet a certain way.  TEC is much more balanced and lenient in that sense, being both good at economy and warfare.

I uploaded a 1v1 game I just played today as Advent against a Vasari player on a rather big 1v1 map but it just shows how the strategy I'm talking about works in practice if you are interested:  Replay File

To watch it just make sure you have the latest version of Entrenchment and then put the replay file in your "Record-Multiplayer" folder on your computer. 

Vista:
C:\Users\username\AppData\Local\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire\

XP:
C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\Application Data\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire\

ah, that makes sense.  I do tend to get a lot of my early game credits from selling metal.

Yes, but once that experienced player learns how to use Vasari, they're near unstoppable.

being an aggressive expansionist but ignoring ur eco is a double sided blade.how far can u push ur fleet?sending non/low upgreaded ships for me is just to feed the enemy.the downside of an eco advent is only being a turtle and thats all, mid to late game u can just send huge fleets with maxed upgrades and thats a lot better than being rusher that can't send huge fleets in mid/late cuz of lack of resource?

just u know if u analyze ur post game statistics u'll notice advent refineries add 25% extra resources rather than traders/vasari's refineries that only add 20% extra resources and Advent's lack in credits is compromised by its culture.

Runesia if you watch that replay I posted earlier in the thread you would understand what I mean.  I've only been playing this game 9 days now but I win 75% of the 1v1s I play, and they are usually against good players because noobs don't like 1v1 games (obviously). 

What you do is just avoid all the planets and roam around the map taking asteroids as fast as possible.  Your opponent will usually not expect you to rush him so quickly so he goes a little bit of eco first, maybe trade ports, maybe just taking over an ice or fire planet.  Either way, your resources have gone into a fleet when his have gone into an economy.  What you do then is take an asteroid or planet very close to his home planet and lock him on one side of the map.  At this point you nullify his economic advantage because he can no longer expand while you can keep expanding to his planets with your superior fleet and gaining an economic advantage without even building a single civ lab.

In the last game I played I was against a very good TEC player who had 4 planets/asteroids all with 3 to 4 trade ports on them, but I still outproduced his army because he was stuck in a corner and I had all the asteroids on the map (plus his planets as I slowly pushed him).

The only counter your opponent has is to skip eco early to match your sizeable "rush" fleet, at which point he still isn't going to beat you in eco, because he didn't go eco.  In my opinion this is the way Advent is meant to be played.  Aside from their early culture centers, their "harmony" tree is absolutely awful when it comes to economic upgrades, especially compared to the other races.  If you can't get a map advantage early on, you are in a lot of trouble.

I haven't read all of the replies, so bear that in mind when you read this. Also, I will be getting more at the advantages/disadvantages that refer to online play.

TEC

Greatest Advantage:

The direct nature of the capital ship abilities, and more specifically, The Akkan's colonize ability. This ability has renewed my faith in TEC. I know there's a lot of things about tec that people could say is the greatest, but in terms of indirect impact in the early game, the Akkan to me does it all. The free mine and income bonus is actually MORE than the Progen econ bonus brings. I'm serious. Crunch the numbers.

Greatest Disadvantage:

I have to go with both starbases and pji's being at tier 4. I know people are probably saying weak frigs, but they're cheap and take up 4 ships slots. C'mon. That's strength in numbers.

What I'm getting at is if you want to be defensive or set defensive traps, you're kinda at a disadvantage. It takes 4 labs for a PJI or a starbase, two buildings the other races have easier access to.

Advent

Greatest Advantage:

Bugged Illuminator. Next question.

Greatest Disadvantage:

Lackluster economy. Going econ with Advent isn't impossible, but Vasari and TEC have better techs/researches that outclass the Advent

Vasari

Greatest Advantage:

I have to say I'm split between phase missiles and a rejuvenated capital ship core. The phase missiles make it so no capital ship is safe, and the new cap ships have been upgrades so much that they actually compare to tec/advent.

Greatest Disadvantage:

Weak units all around. Weak lrf. Weak Scout. Weak light frig. They rely on trying to get by with more resources from neutrals to balance out the fleet by upgrading it and making it bigger earlier, when in reality, their units....SUCK.

TEC gets Starbases at tier 3, with PJIs at tier 4.

Yeah, but Aux govt is Tier 4.

God, the Illums have a benefitial bug now? /Sigh, what is it?

The bug's actually been around for a long time, it's only recently been identified and confirmed.  Basically they have extra invisible attacks, so their DPS is much higher than their stats would indicate.

Those bastards .