New +Minion artifacts?

from Demigod Forums

Alright. I'm one of the few, proud, yeti users. Minion builds are hilarious.

 

The problem is that they do not scale into the very, very late game. I just came off of a very, very long game which ended up with multiple artifacts per player. The problem is that minions absolutely do not scale at this point.

 

The effect of artifacts is huge. With Ashkandor, Sedna goes from about 150-200 damage per hit to 440 or something ridiculous like that, plus extra crit chance. With Bulwark of the Ages, you become more or less impossible to kill.

 

The problem is, when the game hits this stage, minions become obsolete. The health regen alone fully tanks pretty much all damage from all minions combined, nevermind that 2000+ hp yetis (boosted with artifacts) go down in 2-3 hits.

 

We either need new artifacts/items which exist to empower minions, or we need the existing +minion artifacts boosted heavily in that department. Or, additionally, add some way for minions to scale into the superlategame.

demigod
9,834 views 12 replies
Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

The +minion health items are bugged as of now, but this will be fixed in the upcoming patch.

As a support QoT using Shamblers I have to say that it's quite unfair that Erebus/Oak can get 2.5 times the advantage from minion items as they can have 2.5*4=10 minions (which they can get basically for free).

Imho the bonus of minion items should be different for Sedna/Qot and Oak/Erebus.

Making minion items (health, damage, attack speed and regeneration, also Sigils) have about 2 times the effect on Shamblers/Yetis would make such builds more popular (more diversity in the game is always nice) and would also kinda solve the late-game disadvantage. Either that or the basic stats of Shamblers/Yetis will have to be buffed. Almost everyone on this forum agrees on that.

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

As a support QoT using Shamblers I have to say that it's quite unfair that Erebus/Oak can get 2.5 times the advantage from minion items as they can have 2.5*4=10 minions (which they can get basically for free)
End of quote
Minion builds include idols, so it's 10 vs. 16, not 10 vs, 4. That means it's 1.6 times more benefit until you consider shamblers have an AoE atttack so if they hit 2-3 units a piece then you actually gain a comparable and in some cases greater benefit than EB or Oak. Also the best +minion damage items have +weapon damage on them and QoT does AoE herself, so I don't think she has a scaling disadvantage.

Object Desktop - Get all of our enhancement utilities in one suite
Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

Well assuming auto attack was worth anything on QoT herself...

Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

Perhaps the Yetis and Shamblers can be made to inherit a percentage of the AA damage of the general that spawned them? Other aspects of these minions would need to be rebalanced though, if this were the case.

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

OK Obscenitor, let me make it more clear. The effect on Shamblers/Yetis should be stronger in comparison to Nighcrawlers/Spirits. The other idol minions should get the same effect.

As for the damage comparison of Shamblers/Nightwalkers I will point you to this thread. Shambler damage vs. reinforcements is rather irrelevant imho, as you only get a tiny bit of gold for damaging/killing them. Standing next to your tower is almost as effective. Also, try Shamblers versus catapults or giants. Please.

Have you played Yzerman25 in 1vs1 yet to see how QoT Shamblers compare to Erebus Nightwalkers? Then you'd get my picture, I can assure you that. You just don't see her downsides now because you do not play premade vs. premade with QoT.

 

 

Perhaps the Yetis and Shamblers can be made to inherit a percentage of the AA damage of the general that spawned them?
End of quote

Oak would make his Spirits very, very strong in comparison to the other generals. There are better and more fair improvements.

 

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

Have you played Yzerman25 in 1vs1 yet to see how QoT Shamblers compare to Erebus Nightwalkers? Then you'd get my picture, I can assure you that. You just don't see her downsides now because you do not play premade vs. premade with QoT.
End of quote
I've never even spoken to the guy. I hadn't heard of him until you mentioned him, it's a very arbitrary hurdle to jump to get you to acknowledge that you're not the only person in the whole world qualified to comment on QoT.

I've spoken over and over again about how QoT needs to be buffed, but the fact is you have concocted your own very specific set of issues and unless people suggest buffing her in your suggested way you're convinced that they're against you.

 

Here's your problem:

 

You want Shambelrs to tear down DGs just as fast as Nightwalkers. Well there's only four and they do splash damage. It's not going to happen, that's not what they're designed for.

 

If you want QoT to have more DG killing power there's a number of ways to fix that. I agree it needs to be addressed. You're just not being reasonable about it. You know I'm right when I say that she gets 10 minions, not 4, and you know I'm right when I say that Shamblers deal splash damage and are always going to have less single target benefit from upgrades than a Nightwalker.

I can't help but notice when I made a post with QoT improvement ideas you didn't stop by to offer any insight on how it could be done better, and you didn't respond in the other thread where I wrote nearly a full page of explanation about why she still doesn't stack up in the end.

I'm not trying to argue that she's fine, I'm trying to point out how your argument is flawed so that you can improve it and make a more effective argument about why she needs improvements, because she does badly.

Reply #7 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting obscenitor, reply 6

Have you played Yzerman25 in 1vs1 yet to see how QoT Shamblers compare to Erebus Nightwalkers? Then you'd get my picture, I can assure you that. You just don't see her downsides now because you do not play premade vs. premade with QoT.I've never even spoken to the guy. I hadn't heard of him until you mentioned him, it's a very arbitrary hurdle to jump to get you to acknowledge that you're not the only person in the whole world qualified to comment on QoT.
I've spoken over and over again about how QoT needs to be buffed, but the fact is you have concocted your own very specific set of issues and unless people suggest buffing her in your suggested way you're convinced that they're against you.

 

Here's your problem:

 

You want Shambelrs to tear down DGs just as fast as Nightwalkers. Well there's only four and they do splash damage. It's not going to happen, that's not what they're designed for.

 

If you want QoT to have more DG killing power there's a number of ways to fix that. I agree it needs to be addressed. You're just not being reasonable about it. You know I'm right when I say that she gets 10 minions, not 4, and you know I'm right when I say that Shamblers deal splash damage and are always going to have less single target benefit from upgrades than a Nightwalker.
End of obscenitor's quote

CosMoe won't stop until QoT is the most overpowered Demigod ever. No one else has any good ideas for QoT except him. In fact, GPG is out to get him because they hate QoT. Haven't you learned this?

And what do you mean you haven't played YZERMAN25. He's like the most popular guy around! Its not like no one has ever heard that name before.

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Polynomial, reply 7

And what do you mean you haven't played YZERMAN25. He's like the most popular guy around! Its not like no one has ever heard that name before.
End of Polynomial's quote

I think I speak for everyone when I say,

Who?

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

I stopped posting on this forum for a while because Frogboy himself wrote that buying +minion health items results in  summoning half-dead Shamblers/Spirits/Yetis is not a serious bug, but only my personal pet peeve issue which offended me quite a lot.

But I did read your thread about QoT and your ideas are quite nice, especially the tower heal idea for Uproot.

My real pet peeve issue is people who played a few games with QoT (or none at all) commenting that everything is quite fine. By that I do not mean Obscenitor, because the fact that he uses Mulch tells me that he knows how to play her. ;)

I asked you to fight Yzerman because he's the best minion Erebus I know. Your game versus Wipulipo does not reflect the real strength of these two Demigods, it only shows that Wipulipo is not a good player against QoT.

 

CosMoe won't stop until QoT is the most overpowered Demigod ever. No one else has any good ideas for QoT except him. In fact, GPG is out to get him because they hate QoT. Haven't you learned this?
End of quote

I was asking for bug fixes and reasonable buffing of the QoT (like making Uproot a skill worth taking, when was the last time you saw it get used?) so that more players use this Demigod. More diversity in the matches = more fun. Your interpretation of my behaviour on this forum is quite the opposite. I want equal Demigods, not overpowered ones. I am also not interpreting from my experience alone. The numbers on the stats page are quite clear.

Reply #10 from Demigod Forums Top

Wait..what? Buying +minion health REDUCES health?

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top


With Bulwark of the Ages, you become more or less impossible to kill.
End of quote

I did not think that Sedna needed Bulwark to become impossible to kill.

Reply #12 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Demonic, reply 10
Wait..what? Buying +minion health REDUCES health?
End of Demonic's quote
Sorry if this was covered already and I missed it, especially because I don't understand it and I may be contradicting someone who is correct.

Anyway the Sigil of Vitality definitely overwrites other minion health items, causing a health drop if you've equipped other +health items.