Sins 2 Idea

I think that most of us will agree that if a 4th race is added and the current races team up to fight them, then it will be too similiar to SupCom:FA.

Any responses at all?

Yep someone else suggested this and I was like, "SupCom: Forged Alliance much?"

And if they do go this route, their creative minds will be bashed on the forums.  I semi-hate campaigns anyway unless if it unlocks something:-p

well since they havent even been able to figure out how to make a campaign that fits SINs im pretty sure theyll stick with the current layout. Just fight everyone. I was thinking though, why cant they create an interactive map of a sector in space. they can simply make different groups that draws the line in space between Vasari, TEC, and Advent. There'd be multiple sector maps. The AI would be able to choose on its own which system itll spread its forces into on your side or the other AI as itll be your choice who you mess with Once you click on a star on the map it zooms you into the system and (time stops outside that system to keep the other AI from raping you) Although they are allowed to invade on system. Once the fight for a particular system begins it can spread to other nearby systems like in the maps with more then one system. This will look something along the lines of Total War. Where the AI can make choices on its own about what it does with its own faction. BUT it be in 4x mode in this game aside from when the battles would breakout.

On the star map, every star will be interlinked with another star. even if a particular system is a good distance from other stars itll still have a stable phase lane to the closest star possible. But instead of a normal campaign map that tells you where to go and how to do it. The map will be free for all and itll be your choice what direction you take your faction. Also Scout frigates can be made accessible from the Star Map to spy on the enemies side of the front. Giving you needed intel of what the enemy has amassed on his side.

A sandbox-style semi-campaign mode. I like that idea.

However, we don't know what exactly it IS that is chasing the Vasari, so we really can't say what a fourth race would be and its impact on the game.

  idea for a fourth race:

                                           I dont know if this would be satisfying or not, well... i am guessing cool at first, and perhaps a little frustrating later on, but if the 4th race, was in fact this "whatever" that is chasing the Vasari, it could be like the Pirates, i mean only the AI plays them.

From a player standpoint what might be interesting is to "not know" what technology, what kinds of ships, what kinds of weapons this fourth race posesses. It might be cool to go into a battle not knowing what kind of trick or ability or whatever the 4th race ships will pull out of their hat.

Later of course i can guess that people would want to "play" this race, to have all the cool stuff they have and fight against the others.

what might make things interesting in "playing" this fourth race, might be that if we choose it, we automatically get at least a side-sided AI, like Tec/Vasari or Tec/Advent or Advent/Tec naturally as the opposing side.

In such scenarios playing them, the AI might automatically get more resources, cheaper ships and tougher hull/shields and upgraded weapons. In other words, if we want to play the SUPER race that is coming after the vasari, then we get the chips stacked against us.

In playing the regular races, like the Tec, Advent or Vasari against the 4th race AI, then we "have" to form alliances and co-ordinated play with the other races just to survive.

That would mean no playing a single race against them, or losing our socks, 

Either that or we can mod it so we can, but if we really do that, then we lose the whole purpose of the 4th race, which would be the Killer race that trumps everyone, except if we band together.

Even then, the AI might have a limit, by that i mean that opposing forces against the 4th race AI "can't" win, with less than 2/3rd's of the map covered by lets say endgame.  Or a number as in it will take 500 ships to overcome the 4th race.

In addition to their obviously superior power over the other races, their might be a blatant flaw,    like phased ships cannot be seen, are not attacked, or are ignored by the 4th race.

This could lead to some "new" extended phase technology that is currently not available, like phasing a ship for extended periods of time, or only certain ships, lets say only caps. Which would make all lower level frigates and cruisers next to useless, because in any match with the 4th race, the frigates would be simply wiped out in quick order.

What might be interesting to consider also, is what if frigates became upgradeable? what if they could level? what that might mean is creating lower level frigates and cruisers and keeping them out of the 4th races sights long enough to get them to a level where they can survive the 4th races assaults. Making ships and then having to baby-sit them isnt very battle hungry, but it might be cool from a strategy point of view, where i keep my resources hidden until i can get enough research under my belt to effectively go against the 4th race.

This would probably involve "unlocking" the Capitals, so that the ability to get them isnt so restricted. Right now we can deal with this because frigates do most of the heavy battle work in our fleets and they are pitted against approximately even enemies.

Against the 4th race AI this wouldnt be the case, we would quickly lose entire fleets because the frigates would drop like popcorn and the capitals by themselves wouldnt be in enough numbers to effectively battle against the 4th races fleets, which may be just a few ships, but be so very very powerful, that we couldnt hope to overcome them without a dozen or more capitals concentrated on them. 

With levelable frigates we might also want to see, hopefully in a Sins2 sequel, that their are now "dozens...? or more?" abilities that are added to the mix, and in addition, are now "slottable", i guess what i mean by that is that the abilities can be loaded and unloaded into ships. We prepare a fleet, we plug in certain abilities for those ships and go to battle. A way of checking this might be to only allow changing out abilities in the home gravity well, but to be hones a on-the-fly ability change would be super cool and really really throw the game into a state where anything could happen.

Which might be a very very cool thing. 

In addition to 4th race weapons and abilities and ships, we might want to look at the 4th race being able to "co-erce" ? is that the word? the other races. A little like Domination, except that in domination the ship is converted right there and immediately starts firing on the enemy, and get shot by the enemy as well. With the 4th race co-ercion? those ships would still say Advent on them, or Tec, or Vasari, which ever race they belong to, but perhaps when they get back to the homeworld, they allow "planet vision" of that homeworld. Or their presence in gravity wells tends to have the local population begin a rebellion. 

What might be very very cool, is if we dont even know which ships have been "infected" and we can't tell. 

Also, and this may sound silly, as if the rest of what i have already said doesnt sound too silly enough, is what if each of the ships made now are somehow distinguishable. I guess what i mean is right now i make a dozen scouts and they all look alike, they all have the same name, they all have the same abilities and so i cant really tell one from another. Like the Capitals have names, it might be cool if ALL ships have names, different names so that we can tell them apart.

Reason being lets say that a battle against the 4th race goes very very badly and only 5 or 6 ships make it out alive, out of say 60 or so ships sent in. Three of these a scout, and two lights were infected without us knowing about it, but we notice, almost immediately that rebellions start on our own home planet when they come back. With names we could say, "You know... ever since the Talon and Berserker and Comrade  and those three other ships returned things have gotten out of hand". So what do we do?  Do we line up the returned ships and destroy them? Or send them out one at a time or in small groups to see what happens on the planets they visit? Because if an infected ship goes into an enemy gravity well, the population there will begin to rebel, in greater and greater numbers and degrees the longer that ship is in the well. 

So do we line them up and shoot them?  haha, that would take a new kind of coding to allow friendly ships to kill their own ships, or we simply have the player scrap them using the scrap button in the game which is already there.

But that is not too bad if we only have 6 ships come back, we shoot all 6, or spend time trying to figure out how many and which ones, because it wouldnt show.    And lose 3 good ships without knowing it. But what if we have fleet come back from a slight brush with the 4th race?  An entire fleet of say 50 ships? And strange things start happening, perhaps not just rebellions, but perhaps engine failures, weapon failures, or shield failures on ships, or planet modules start blowing up randomly,    So we have an entire fleet we have to consider sending to the firing squad.    Oh my!!!

Anyway, another cool "tech" or ability for the 4th race might be, something along the lines of the super planet weapons the races have now, like an ability that is used once and then takes like 30 minutes before they can use it again, but something like lets say they "black hole" a planet, but we dont know it, there is no "visible" way to tell, except that every ship that goes in the well disappears. Every one. So that means in the beginning of the game when planets are unknown and not yet discovered, that jumping whole fleets becomes a scary thing. Do we want to jump a hundred ships into a planet well, only to have them disappear? 

Later in the game of course the 4th race can still use this, so maybe we get used to creeping around in small groups and only invading in strength when we see the ships dont disappear and other ships are there as well. 

It changes how we play the game. 

What might also be interesting to think about with the 4th race, is if they have the ability to call in more than one front, I guess what i mean is the Vasari have returning armada, and all the rest of us, have to have fleets made and scattered on other worlds to be able to call in a helping fleet. But what if the 4th race could bring in two fleets from opposite sides of a gravity well and attack? what if... haha, this is an idea, what if there is this huge battle going on right? And suddenly the 4th race ships start disappearing?    We blink, but then start to see our own ships disappearing, Oh Shoot!!!! 

I guess what i mean is, wouldnt it be cool, if the 4th race could "sacrifice" their own ships in a well to hit it with their you know super weapon?    Instead of running away, instead of battling it out where superior numbers usually mean whoever has those numbers takes the planet or takes the game, we have a wildcard out there that throws things completely into left field. Meaning a game isnt finished and "won" until we actually get that last ship on that last planet.    

I know it would make for even longer games than now, but if things are up in the air so much, it might make it very very interesting, because my superior numbers "may" not be able to pull it off.

Not only that, but lets say we are in a alliance with the Vasar and the Tec and those races of course come into and out of our wells all the time, and we start having rebellions and ships failing and planet modules exploding, or even say population count drops (as if something is going on down on the surface of the planet?)

Who do we shoot then?

If we are a single player and the AI is both our allies and also the 4th race bad guy, then we "could" possibly have control to scuttle those ships, oh my!! but at what a cost? how many are we scuttling and killing that are perfectly fine ships, only we dont know it and we panic and slaughter all of them?

But in online games?  Or even multiplayer lan games with friends, and your planets start suffering from "infection" how do you convince your buddy to kill his ships because you think its his ships that are infected?  And he is saying "Its not me!!" And we are saying, "It sure the heck is!!"  What kind of co-operation between alliances are we getting then?

And what if the 4th race can "bribe" us?  I mean, they say, "I will pay you x amount of credits/metal/crystal if you get late to a battle where your ally is battling the 4th race?

Or what if the 4th race "bribes" our ally?

Oh crap!!!!

Or what if the 4th race says, "I will let your ships on such and such planet live if you provide us with credits/metal/crystal"? 

haha, well... enough of this, but im getting carried away, but just some things to think about for a Sins 2 sequel.

Take care and Keep Modding!!!

-Teal

Teal,

You write too much to make me wanna read...sorry

Sincerely,

Phalnax

  Sorry,

                Just some ideas!!

Phalanx811,

It covers a 4th race, some new weapons and abilities and just a few thoughts about sabotage and not knowing about what is going on. 

-Teal

Some pretty good ideas here but I was hoping for feedback on what I wrote, not what I thought was unoriginal (supcom: fa style story with killer 4th race)

I was speculating as to how Sins may develop lore-wise, not gameplay changes or the addition of a campaign. Also, IC said that they will do a campaign, but only if it was completely unique and different from other RTS campaigns.

Once again, any feedback?

Haha I figured

As long as it's not a full scripted and "un-persistant" campaign, I'm all for it.  But I hate campaigns where it is linear and completely predefined.  Example: Warcraft III's type of campaign and Starcrafts.  Although I liked Warcraft III, those types of campaigns are just obsolete.

A non-linear, persistant campaign....kinda similar to Dawn of War 2's but fully in space and with our beloved Sins twist on it.

Agree on that?

Maybe something like the random map generator with some cutscenes and storyline fixed into it. Idk how it would turn out, probably bad, but I'll just get it out and maybe someone can improve on it. Like you start in a certain situation, it's always different, at least there would be a list of situations and each new map would be a randomly generated one, and certain actions or style of gameplay or something would "trigger" certain things to happen. (im a fan of cutscenes depicting something, maybe a big explosiony one for when your first cap ship is destroyed?) not sure what else would happen, but I came up with this in like 5 minutes. Idk. This appeal to anyone?

EDIT: and there would have to be a really sweet storyline. NO IDEA how that'd all work.

Meh....perhaps a set of necessary objectives to progress the story line.  Maybe on one giant map (200+ planets).

My idea:

-One map...starts small (like in SupCom)--about 10ish planets.

-Once you complete the objectives the map expands to a new system with more planets and objectives.  You'll still have you forces from the last mission.  Now with two systems to worry about you'll encounter more races/factions and have to defend your newly claimed original system while trying to branch out and complete the main objectives.
Some optional objectives can be thrown in as rewards etc but don't help with the story.

-And by the time we advance through different missions(maybe five or so spanning three or so systems [40 planets]) we'll come to Entrenchment's storyline=allowed to build starbases.

-Then Diplomacy's storyline eventually. By now there would be about five systems with different allies, enemies and neutral, and pirates.  The story would be getting deeper and all the while there would be cutscenes or something in between the completion of the main mission.

-And this we aren't getting a campaign in Diplomacy, the campaign will perhaps end (with a cliffhanger allowing future expansions) in a final battle against whomever or whatever etc.

Keep in mind, you will have the same planets you started with in your very first solar system all the way to the end, encountering hostile and friendly factions along the way.  The main goal is to complete the main ojbectives but in theory, you could play the campaign forever.

Thoughts?

-Phalnax...

(I pulled a "Teal" by writing a lot )

psssshhh this is nothing.

this is a lot!

(im trying to singlehandedly start a second page. i think its gonna work)

EDIT: no!!!! still the first page. damn u teal, y didnt u write more?????

Pages go by number of posts, not length.

Well, perhaps something along the lines of Galactic Conquest from Battlefront.  Currently, you can go from any star to any other, but if you made it so that they too had phase lanes, then you could achieve something like it.

In this way, you would have "Campaign" as one "galactic" map.  Each Faction would start with planets in certain areas.  By having each faction start with certain things (Vasari having some phase gates, TEC having TP's, and the Advent having culture centers.)  You could also throw in new branches of research that would be something along the lines of "Internal Affairs."

This class of research would allow you to perform research that would streamline government affairs.  Some would unlock optional activities that you can do that have a toggleable effect on all planets.  An example would be "Declare State of Emergency" for the TEC.  Doing so would cause trade ports to generate 40% less income, but would reduce the damage taken by all things controlled by the player by 25%.

As for the Vasari, they could research something that would allow Jarasul Evacuators to "evacuate" a planet by temporarily carrying its population with it.  Doing so would scuttle the planet, but would allow the Jarasul to transplant that same population on another planet, and increasing the build rate on that planet by 100% (this would stack with the colonize ability on this ship already.)

The Advent would have something along the lines of "Condemn Sinners."  Activating this would cause all ships and structures to deal 20% more damage but move 30% slower.

There would be many more than this, but these are just some toggleable things that would be researchable via this tab.  

Other things would deal with the streamlining government.

Anyways, victory would depend on destroying the enemy.  Each faction would have a "Capital Planet" that would be permanent.  Losing this planet would cause all planets to suffer allegiance deficits for a while.  This planet would also have a rather large income.

Something else to note, the ship limits would be greatly increased.  Now, you could build 50ish capitals and thousands of frigates.  Needless to say, these fleets will be big.

Just vague ideas...

As for dealing with lore, I'm not a big fan of making it up for a sequel when the first one isn't even done yet...

Definately. As for extra races, I really don't want a fourth "killer" race. Escaped Vasari slaves that gain independance from the Vasari would work I think. Having an "offshoot race" of the Vasari who want to destroy everything and sacrifice prisoners to the thing that is chasing them to try to "appease" it in the same way that the azteks sacrificed prisoners of war to their gods so that the world wouldn't end.

I think that it would be better then directly revealing the thing that is chasing the Vasari because so much mystery has built up around it. The reason why it works is because it is a mystery. Its like a horror movie when you don't get a proper look at the killer creature or whatever. (this was the real point of this thread)

huh i did not know that.

look, u learn something every day.

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