Progenitor--Why does it broadside?

I've kinda wondered about this myself. You'll see if you turn on the graphics mods that the lasers seem to be able to shoot to the opposite side of the ship that they're on (why? I don't know)

I think the reason it's a side shooter is because when it turns to the sides it can fire both lasers AND at least one side of the plasma weapon too.

I think I remember reading somewhere that ships go broadside or head on depending on which will allow them to do the most damage to one single target. So I *think* that if you wanted the Progenitor to go head on you could mod it so the forward facing weapons (assuming it has any) do more damage than any of the side ones combined.

By the same logic you should be able to make one of the ships that have a backwards facing weapon (I don't remember which have them off the top of my head, but I know there are a couple) face the targeted ship backwards, although you would have to increase the damage of that weapon a lot.

@Amish:

Well, the thing is, it only ever fires half of its lasers.  WHY!?!  If you stick this thing directly between two Kodiaks, only one of them will actually get shot at by the lasers.  The other will only get hit by one mesely plasma cannon.

@Kyogre:

Well, I know the system it uses.  The AI is advanced in that regard as it actively searches for the maximum DPS.  However, the Progenitor has NO foreward guns outside of bombardment weapons.  If you changed the code so that the leading few turrets were forward firing, the rest would follow suit and you would have 200 DPS aimed at one target.

Rear facing ships would be funny.  On the plus side, if you are getting slaughtered by a starbase, you can always run and continue to fire.  By the way, the Kol, Dunov, and Kortul if I remember right have rear facing guns.

I'm curious, can the firing arcs be modded?  I'd love to make some changes in that department...  I play single play so it shouldn't be a HUGE issue if the values can be gotten to.

No, the firing arcs are hardcoded.

The Jarrasul also has rear-facing guns, above and below the engines.

Simply put, the Progenitor broadsides to make use of its laser and plasma guns on the same target.

Did you not read the OP?  I understand why things like the Dunov or Akkan broadside, but when ALL of your weapons have the potential to aim at the same target, why don't you?

Cuz every ship needs a flaw

I'm not sure if it can fire both front, left and right side guns.

But I do now that, for example, Kortul can shoot both its three side beams (on one bank) and its forward missile/wave/beam batteries if you somehow manage to keep the target at a ~45 degree angle. Yeah, the damage can be massive.

Stupid ships.

Well, I know but the Kol can only use a max of 60-70% of its max damage...  The progenitor can use 100% on a single target.

well, that makes sense. any intelligent ship captain will try to 'bend the rules' so he brings as many weapons to bear as possible, and, if hes really good, he'll do it without presenting a target to be fired back at.

so, lets say a Kortul is firing on a starbase or something equivocably large, by sitting at a 45 degree angle he can bring more weapons to bear. if he rotated so the top of this ship was facing the starbase, he could possible also bring his Pulse Beams from the other side of the ship to bear as well. he may lose the two rear ones, but he'd still have the 4 middle/front ones, AND he would have his aft firing weapon mounted above the engine. that would give him SO much more firepower its scary.

but, then again, we fight with AI captains, not superheros... still, its nice to daydream... =P

Exactly.  Any human will bend the rules.  Any gun that isn't restricted to one side or another is going to be used in multiple directions.

Example A: Star Destroyers.  While there are people that think they look too blocky (I think they look cool, but oh well), an SD is one of the most advantageous ship designs imaginable.  You create a minimal target for the enemy while simultaneously allowing all your weapons to aim at his ship.  You fire eight heavy cannons, he fires 2-3.  You can take a wild guess at who will win...

The same applies to the Progenitor.  Its shape allows ships to be fired on by both its front (I'll talk about this in a minute, this is hilarious) and flanks.  This means that all 220 DPS is going towards one ship.  That is up there in Vulkoras and Marza territory as far as DPS to a single target goes.

Now, as for its forward firing "weapons..."  I will be starting a new "forum game" in which I send out a few hundred Advent Bombers and have them shoot at one thing at a time.  Obviously, it is destroyed in 1-2 volleys with that many of them.  What is left behind is a bunch of glowing dots in the shape of the ship/structure destroyed.  How I'm turning this into a game, I'm not saying... Yet... When I used this on a progenitor, I discovered that there was one dot way off in the middle of nowhere on the very bottom of it.  Curious, I took a look at my own and come to find out, there is indeed a turret there which faces forward.  I ask myself, "How much damage does that thing do?"  So, after saving the game, I go check the file on it.  It deals...  Drum role please...  

1 damage!  Yep, one single damage point.  But it gets better.  That is the damage dealt per volley, not DPS.  Now, the Progenitors laser cannons fire once every six seconds, so that puts this thing at...  0.1667 DPS...  I couldn't believe my eyes, so I checked again, low and behold, it was correct.  The thing literally deals less than a DPS with forward guns.  Maybe its just me, but that is both hilarious and sad at the same time.  Why even have that thing there at all if it deals less than one DPS...  Just saying...

I have no quarrel with ships turning 45 degrees in order to bring front and bank weapons to bear.
Only that they don't do it if you don't micro them to do it.
And if you do click around to have them facing 45 degrees off the main target, the ship will spread the damage around other targets if only there is more than one.

stupid ships.

i understood, i was just making a general statement, having nothing to do with Sins...

the thought just popped into my mind so

as for that turret at the bottom of the Progen... maybe they just wanted the Progen to do a certain DPS, and that extra turret was the way to do it, without having to add a 0.0000000000000000000001 value to all the guns?

It lewks coooool

hey, for anyone who doesn't know-

Marza's have port/starboard guns. Only noticed this while playing ManSh00ter's Volumetrics. The Sova also has a pair of rear guns. Wierd, huh?

Just nitpicking, but what else am I going to do in this thread?

@Whiskey:

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure they aren't used.  They may be in the model, but the CAPITALSHIP_TECHPLANETBOMBER file says otherwise...

@Kit:

Don't think so...  The slope is steep, but I'm thinking that the guns are at just the right height to see over each other...

I learned this in the Requiem thread-

The Venator Class Star Destroyer can tilt 6 degrees forward to allow it's turbolaser turrets to ALL fire forward. Alternately, it could tilt backwards at that same angle and achieve the same result.

Also Volt, I SAW the Marza shoot stuff to it's side. It's not just hardpointed on the mesh, it's got damage to the sides.

Yeah... Up to 180 degrees...  So can the Kol's beams...  That is just the firing arc...

no, I think you might misunderstand me; I saw the Marza firing weapons on its' STARBOARD and PORT sides. Not it's frontal weapons firing to the side. Playing with Volumetrics on really makes it easy to distinguish.

Wait... where are you looking? The file is definetly CAPITALSHIP_TECHSIEGE.

Wiskey is right, though, the Marza does have side weapons, which I have noticed as well. They just don't do very much. If you don't believe us, this is taken straigt from the entity file:

I was pulling the PLANETBOMBER out of the air...  I was too lazy to look it up and find it to be siege...

Surprising...  Well, that would prove everyone wrong who ever said that all the Marza's guns face only face forward...

ive known for ages that the marza has 3-way guns (fore, port and starboard)

i just never pulled up anyone who said it is a front shooter because it does all its best work with its front guns, and the sides are just havoc/flanking weapons (havoc as in, you get past it's main guns, yet it can still shoot and cause havoc)