3v3 Pantheons?

Pretty, pretty please! 2v2s on Crucible are just no fun.

Well I can't imagine that there will be 3v3 Pantheon when 2v2 Pantheon is still a clusterf*@k.  I have had AI opponents (sometimes exclusively) in my last 5 pantheon games.  Even ones where the match is 2v1 with the 1 being an AI.  If you move it up to 3v3, the problem is magnified even more. 

There are several culprits - some player made (people wanting to team up with a buddy that drop) and some game made (connections are just being dropped).  Before you can move to 3v3, you have to get rid of the connection window so you don't know who is in your match to prevent the former issue, and then SD needs to make sure connections are not dropped before the game begins to address the latter issue.  3v3 right now is just a really bad idea as much as I want it.  I am still of the opinion that they should shut down 2v2 Pantheon until they actually have it working.

dont get rid of connection window, thats slapping the user in theface

the reason they look at it sometimes if you are correct, is to join a friend, so let people join up matches together, dont eliminate the possibilty to play with friends

3vs3 on crucible would be even worse.  That map needs to be taken out back and shot.  Failing that, simply remove it from the pantheon map rotation.

3vs3 and 4vs4 pantheon (possibly with some kind of system where only 1 of each demigod could be used) would be pretty interesting imo, however I would like 2vs2 fixed and working flawlessly before any other changes are made.  If 2vs2 wont work, then there is absolutely no hope for 3vs3.  The last thing Demigod needs is another broken game mode.

We aren't dropping connections though. The logs are pretty clear: People quit.

It only picks Crucible because it ends up a 2v2 and that's the most suitable map for it.

A 3v3 would pick Cataract and Prison, and games with more players would pick things like Brothers.

Crucible itself is not *that* bad of a map, it's just plain and there isn't much involved in it since it only has the one lane. But personally, I dislike Exile a great deal more than Crucible, for those +15 hp/s and +15 en/s flags, and artifacts in each team's base.

Anyway, back to Pantheon, it just looks like it doesn't even *try* to match with more players, as soon as it finds 4 it drops them in a game and goes. My "ideal" system would, by default, aggregate all the players looking over a set period of time (say, 3-4 minutes). It would then take the highest even number of those players and match them trying to keep the ELO ratings fairly evened out. To go with this, the user should have the option to set a threshold for the kind of games he wants to play. If he refuses to play 2v2s, he can set his threshold to 3v3 and the system will just keep him waiting in the queue until it can find enough players:

For example, this player joins the queue which runs through its duration and only finds 5 players. It matches the 4 that don't have it enabled, and keeps him in the next round. Next round it finds 7 people, but 2 have "4v4" selected which brings it back down to 5 and a 2v2 game, leaving the 3 with higher thresholds waiting for the next round. Next round it gets 5 more people for 8 total, and everyone's happy in their 4v4 game.

It may be longer waits for the people who set the higher thresholds and lower number of players looking in that round, but then everyone will be able to play what they want. Those who don't care what they play will pretty much always get into at least a 2v2, and those who want bigger games will just wait longer.

Unfortunately, Stardock can't really build in the UI for this in Demigod so GPG would have to do it, the only thing Stardock can do is handle how connections are done behind the scenes.

Needs a matching option - match me with 2v2s, 3v3s, 4v4s, 5v5s, all of the above, some of the above.

Then match that number.

Otherwise you'll only ever get 2v2s.

If this is the case, the underlying reasons for quiting must be addressed (which I am sure you are looking at).  I would be very curious if you are crunching the numbers to see if it's predominantly people that play with the same people game after game in Pantheon (i.e., set teams).  Possible solutions:

• Eliminate the connection screen so you cannot see who you are matched against.
• Provide more feedback on what is happening during the connection process so people don't think things are frozen.
• Launch people into a game lobby like custom so they launch it themselves.
• Provide a disincentive for repetitive quiting.  (Everyone will quit once in a while, but 10 times in 4 minutes indicates some issue).
• Don't permit the same teams within a certain time frame.
• Add a set team join option.  <-- Obviously the best solution but also the hardest technically.  Give us some type of bandaid fix while you work on it.

You also know better about the SD connections, but it seems odd to me that so many of my games start with an AI player.  I will "quit" a game after I have stared at the load screen for 5 minutes.  Something has clearly gone wrong before I "quit" but is that logged as a quit or do the logs pick up whatever the problem was that caused the load screen to hang for 5 minutes.  (which maybe another quit, I just don't know).  Anyway, the end result is that Pantheon just doesn't work right now and is frustrating at best.

few reasons

people drop if they see their friends are not with them

people drop cause few want to play dominate or frotress.

how to solve these problems

allow premades to join path/skirmish games

allow an option to choose what type of game they want to play like conquest,dominate,fortress, or slaughter.

i mean i do not see the big deal for this option to be implemented. i understand not haven a map option but not the type of game  option is ludricous. when i do paths i will quite if its dominate or fortress.

I dislike the idea of premades in Pantheon. I'm fine with it in custom games, it's what it's for, but I don't want to be matched against two guys that have played with each other since beta while I get matched with some random dude I've never seen before.

And no, the response "well just get a premade of your own" is not reasonable.

Well even if you are playing premades, I thought the idea of Pantheon was to pit people of equal rank against each other.  So your partner, at least in theory should be better individually than the other side - under the theory that a premade has slightly boosted individual rank based on their ability to win with team work.

But premades inevitably have the correct combination of Demigods and strategies, while the random people are thrown together for the first time with no guarantee of Demigod synergy and with no experience playing with each other.

Even if all the players are of similar skill, the premade has a clear and inherent advantage.

Follow that logic through though.  Those premades will beat random teams of equal rank and what happens?  The premades' rank will increase and they will be matched against randoms that individually are better.  At some point, the synergy of the team will be countered by the skill of the individual player. 

No, that is not a logical conclusion. The logical conclusion is that a team with more experience playing as a team will have an advantage over similarly-skilled individuals playing as a team for the first time.

You will never eliminate the factor of "premade team has their Demigods precisely picked while the random is random".

I hate to steal from other games, but in warcraft 3 and WoW arenas you can 'queue' as a team. Seems like a good fix. If it's a competitive ranked team game shouldn't you be able to form teams?

They already said that they're looking into ways of doing team queues. The issue at question is if you should be allowed to queue as a team against randoms, or keep it teams vs teams. From the various other discussions we had on it, it would seem that most prefer keeping it teams vs teams, so a premade won't be able to play against randoms.

Imo, people quit because they wait too long for a match to start. I bet some of them think it doesn't work and alt-f4. First time i was in Panth i though it too...

And regarding uneven matches (2v1 or 3v2), i'm sorry but i will never, ever play such a game in Demigod. It's unfair, simple as that.

My recommendation is to gather people according to their skill (rank) level in a lobby, before the game stars, just like in custom matches. If someone quits, other will join the lobby (automatically according to his rank lvl), replacing the missing person. This way it will be possible for playing 4v4 matches or even 5v5 games, and if someone quits while in the lobby (or before entering the lobby, at the connection screen), other will take his place.

That makes no sense at all.  What happens when a team wins?  Their rank gets better.  What happens when their rank gets better?  The game pits them against better players.  At some point even premade teams should be playing balanced games because they will not be playing randoms of similar skill!  They will be playing randoms with much better individual skill.