vStyler vStyler

Why it will never end.

Why it will never end.

Sigh.

I'm sure this will be met with some measure of controversy...

 

I am saddened to see any child die, I empathize with the true innocent's that have perished in not only this war but all the other futile conflicts.

...but....frankly I've had it up to my ears listening to radical advocates spouting off about their children being killed, parading photos around as if THEY had had no stake in what led up to the event. 

I believe that radical islam is on its way to destroying our planet. When your putting weapons in the hands of, or strapping bombs to.. your young men..you have lost any and all claim to being a civilized people and imo merit zero sympathy.

When I look at the faces, in the photo's, I am hard pressed to find ONE face that isn't in some form portraying evil or anger, They don't want peace, they care nothing about truces or diplomacy, they don't cherish or celebrate life.

It is a disease, a drug that is slowly but very surely speading accross our planet, I personally don't see anyway it can be stopped.

I am loathed to think about raising my own children in the current world climate. Sure there are many more forces at work, but I believe the single most significant threat to the west in the years to come is keeping this evil at bay.

Some of you I'm sure will invoke Isreali \ Western agrression, warmongering, ideology, any number of reasons why it's not their fault... I think thats BS.

 

Look at the images, do you see peace seekers? Children of God?..

I see pure evil.

 

:thumbsdown:

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Reply #151 Top

Quote by DrJBHL:

I have requested  the reference/URL for the films chris ihao states he saw in a pm.

When he produces them I shall forward them to the Adjutant General of The IDF.

I have a feeling, though that either these "films" were propaganda or produced by someone else (ie Hamas).

I follow Israeli Papers very closely and have seen nothing of the kind in them, and this would have appeared.

Another difference between Israel and it's neighbors.

End of quote

I just knew you were asking about the sources for the clips to call me a "phony", so I'll bring my response here instead of doing it in pm:

"Ok. I'll see if I find them. The clip with the kids having their limbs knocked out of place I saw ages ago, and the clip with the kid with father also was quite some time ago. I sincerely hope you do believe me though, as I would never make up stuff like this to put forth an argument.

I found some stills from the clip with the kid and father: http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/images2/atrocities_files/fathershieldsson.jpg,  http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/images2/atrocities_files/fatherlooksforsafeexit.jpg, http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/images2/atrocities_files/fathershottoo.jpg. This site obviously is VERY biased, and I wouldnt trust half of whats written there. Still, if the second half is true that would be more than enough for me.

Obviously these stills could easily be manipulated. I have seen this clip in its entirety though, and it looked pretty authentic to me. How the bodies move wierdly from the impact of the shots and so on. I also feel that the expression of the kid looks pretty authentic, but you never know. Its pretty horrible to watch, even in pictures, for me. I guess its the same for you.

To be honest, just from remembrance I cant confirm that the father/kid getting shot is real. The other clip though I just KNOW, and then I state KNOW is real, because you get to see it all play out over some time. They were responding to kids throwing rocks at a israeli vehicle by removing their ability to throw any more stones for probably years to come by destroying body parts.

I hope you do know that these type of things have been reported repeatedly. There even was some israeli soldiers who started a campain, because of all the atrocities they were a part of while serving. An example of this: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/415302.cms. So why you of all people decide to defend the actions of the israeli army I just cannot get. At least vStyle says that he's not particulary a fan of the Israeli actions.

Seriously, reporting these incidents to the Adjutant General  of the israeli army would do nothing, but do whatever please you."

Well, that was the PM. I have to ask though. Do you seriously think that israeli papers is the best source for news about Israeli atrocoties? That baffled me a bit.

Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamoked. Here, Israels "broken bones" policy in the first first intifada is mentioned. My guess is that the clip I saw several years ago was from that period. Still looking, though I really do not want to see this clip again. Its nice to see how there are humanitarian groups IN Israel that actually work for the palestines human rights. I guess THEY know whats happening there. I also know several jews from personal experience, and they were swell guys. Its the israelan states actions that make no sense to me.

Reply #152 Top

What you wrote was offensive to people who live their lives by those 'fables'.
End of quote

Your a good man Doc but they can't be anymore offended than an Athiest that has to live with a system shaped and molded with religous foundations. Holy christ on a cracker, we are going through a depression, shutting the system down on Sundays is just stupid.

I'm just saying that religous people are quick to cry Waaaaaaaaaaa yet do not care that they continuously offend Athiests in everything they do.

 

Peace bro. :)

Reply #153 Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 21

The stories in the Bible, The Tora, The Talmud, and The Koran and just that; Stories. They are fables. Stories that have been exaggerated over time after being told so many times that the people have gained magical powers or did extrodinary things. The reality is you live the life in the morals, values, and ideas we have learned about in our own life times.


You forgot the "in my humble opinion". 

What you wrote was offensive to people who live their lives by those 'fables'.

You might even have a "Fatwah" on the way....be careful of those folks,  JukEboXAuDiO.
End of DrJBHL's quote

I thought I wrote that Its my opinion before i typed that. I don't care if it offended people who lived by those fables. Many of them believe that jesus will show them the way. THIS IS MY OPINION. Jesus isn't showing you how to live your life. Noone is. You are. You do what needs to be done to continue on. YOu have read stories to give you hope and maybe some guidance but not what to do in a pinch. Its exasperated by television and movies preaching miracles and such. Life isn't perfect like that. We are all lost in what we think it should be like but its not. Wake up.

Reply #154 Top

Needless to say your pictures showed exactly nothing.

Your post is an attempt to provoke...so I won't give you that pleasure.

It is enough that you proved that no such footage was in your hands.

"I sincerely hope you do believe me though, as I would never make up stuff like this to put forth an argument." 

I think you're FOS. If you had the clips you would have submitted them.

Instead you have 3 pictures...and they might have been shot by Hamas. In fact, probably were.

There was no trick as you put it on my part. Just a lie or total gullibility on yours.

You obviously think I'm a fool, so Adios, amigo. Peddle your BS elsewhere.

 Oh yes, the site you pm'd me is a Hamas site...you really are gullible.

Reply #155 Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 22
I have a feeling, though that either these "films" were propaganda or produced by someone else (ie Hamas).

I follow Israeli Papers very closely and have seen nothing of the kind in them, and this would have appeared.

Another difference between Israel and it's neighbors.
End of DrJBHL's quote


Do these Isaeli papers have Palestinian reporters working for them?  Are the owners of the paper free of bias?  Are you sure you aren't getting your own dose of propaganda by following the Israeli papers?

I'm not saying that the papers intentionally lie.  I've done a lot of reading on the neuroscience of belief and perception.  We truly do see what we want to see and totally miss what we don't want to see.  Some of us have natures that are more willing to accept what we would rather not see (the neuroscientific differences between the liberal brain and the conservative brain is fascinating), but we ALL perceive in a way that glorifies our self. 

Many animals engage in deception, or deliberately misleading another, but only humans are wired to deceive both themselves and others, researchers say. People are so engaged in managing how others perceive them that they are often unable to separate truth from fiction in their own minds, Feldman's research shows.

For instance, In one experiment, Feldman put two strangers in a room together. They were videotaped while they conversed. Later, independently, each was asked to view the tape and identify anything they had said that was not entirely accurate. 

Rather than defining what counts as a lie and to avoid the moral tone of the word "lie," Feldman's experimenters simply asked subjects after the fact to identify anything they had said in the video that was "not entirely accurate." 

Initially, "Each subject said, 'Oh, I was entirely accurate,'" Feldman told LiveScience. Upon watching themselves on video, subjects were genuinely surprised to discover they had said something inaccurate. The lies ranged from pretending to like someone they actually disliked to falsely claiming to be the star of a rock band.

End of quote
http://www.livescience.com/health/060515_why_lie.html

David Dunning of Cornell University has done many studies on how it is we perceive what we do.  You can read his study and the results here:  http://research.chicagogsb.edu/cdr/docs/dunning.pdf

One has to be very careful about getting the whole picture, listening to both sides, when making expansive judgments about certain groups of people.  I am pretty sure there are some nasty people involved with Hamas.  I am also pretty sure that there are some Israelis who aren't as honorable as you would like to believe they are.

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Reply #156 Top

but we ALL perceive in a way that glorifies our self.


needed to be repeated. :)

Reply #157 Top

Quoting Chris, reply 1

I found some stills from the clip with the kid and father: http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/images2/atrocities_files/fathershieldsson.jpg,  http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/images2/atrocities_files/fatherlooksforsafeexit.jpg, http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/images2/atrocities_files/fathershottoo.jpg. This site obviously is VERY biased, and I wouldnt trust half of whats written there. Still, if the second half is true that would be more than enough for me.
End of Chris's quote


Chris, are you sure what you saw in the clip was TRUTH, or theatrics.  Check out this site, which breaks down that clip and poses some very interesting questions: http://www.seconddraft.org/selections.php?theme=5takes

This is why I said I don't want to get involved and I have stuff on my own plate to deal with.  ALL of these terrorist/victim/right/wrong conflicts taking place across the seas...I'm not there!  All I can do is listen and watch what each side says happened and since I wasn't there, I'm vulnerable to whatever theatrical drama they want to entertain me with.  I can't even believe my OWN eyes, with stuff I see right in front of me.  How am I suppose to judge whatever little selective bit of video and accompanying story is actual truth.  And then the more I think about it, I end up going into a total existential funk and question the very nature of truth...and this is without the benefits of "the plant"!!!  :(


I've been told I think too much.

Reply #158 Top

I prefer to go with my gut, I feel im a good judge of what I see.  When evil is visible, I see it.. no matter what side it is on. Coverage of both sides of the issue is everywhere 24/7 these days, I just happen to come down on the side I believe doesn't want to destroy civilization as we know it.

Tell you what though, if anyone out there thinks the west or anyone else is doing as much to further terror and destruction on this planet than the radical ismlamic movement they need their head examined.

Reply #159 Top

Do these Isaeli papers have Palestinian reporters working for them? Are the owners of the paper free of bias? Are you sure you aren't getting your own dose of propaganda by following the Israeli papers?

I'm not saying that the papers intentionally lie. I've done a lot of reading on the neuroscience of belief and perception. We truly do see what we want to see and totally miss what we don't want to see. Some of us have natures that are more willing to accept what we would rather not see (the neuroscientific differences between the liberal brain and the conservative brain is fascinating), but we ALL perceive in a way that glorifies our self.
End of quote

You obviously have no experience with Israeli papers.

One has to be very careful about getting the whole picture, listening to both sides, when making expansive judgments about certain groups of people. I am pretty sure there are some nasty people involved with Hamas. I am also pretty sure that there are some Israelis who aren't as honorable as you would like to believe they are.
End of quote

There's a big difference between that and slaughtering people wantonly and deliberately.

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Reply #160 Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 4
Needless to say your pictures showed exactly nothing.

Your post is an attempt to provoke...so I won't give you that pleasure.

It is enough that you proved that no such footage was in your hands.

"I sincerely hope you do believe me though, as I would never make up stuff like this to put forth an argument." 

I think you're FOS. If you had the clips you would have submitted them.

Instead you have 3 pictures...and they might have been shot by Hamas. In fact, probably were.

There was no trick as you put it on my part. Just a lie or total gullibility on yours.

You obviously think I'm a fool, so Adios, amigo. Peddle your BS elsewhere.

 Oh yes, the site you pm'd me is a Hamas site...you really are gullible.
End of DrJBHL's quote

 

In my hands? I cant believe I'm reading this comment coming from a grown man like yourself. You think I'm a collector or clips of human suffering and death or what? I am honestly saying that I believe at least one of these clips are real, yet you call it BS. Now you are openly aiming to insult me. I came here to offer my apoligies for the way I spoke yesterday, also to you, yet you spit on them like they are trash. I also told you several times the mentioned site isn't very trustworthy, but that does not keep you from going on and on and on about that they MUST be false and that I am spreading BS. Are you all knowing God now all of the sudden? Have you seen all that is to see around the world? Must be special. Btw, why cant ANYTHING reported on arab or muslim sites be true? This tells a lot about you.

Why do you not mention the other links by the way? The part about israeli soldiers campaining agains Isralei military operations for instance? You have NOTHING to add? You run around policing this thread like its your own, and support even more respected members unconditionally without adding anything at all.

You say: "You obviously think I'm a fool" Yes, now I KNOW you are a fool, judging from this last comment of yours. And good riddance. I'm out of here.

Reply #161 Top

I prefer to go with my gut, I feel im a good judge of what I see. When evil is visible, I see it.. no matter what side it is on. Coverage of both sides of the issue is everywhere 24/7 these days, I just happen to come down on the side I believe doesn't want to destroy civilization as we know it.

Tell you what though, if anyone out there thinks the west or anyone else is doing as much to further terror and destruction on this planet than the radical ismlamic movement they need their head examined.
End of quote

Me too.

I've served and I never saw any evidence of what chris suggested.

Are there casualties among civilians...yes and on both sides.

Is Hamas evil. Without a doubt.

Is Israel or the IDF evil? I have no evidence supporting that. I have, however seen plenty of evidence that when encountered, wrongdoers are punished.

Reply #162 Top

Quoting vStyler, reply 8
When evil is visible, I see it..
End of vStyler's quote

"good" and "evil" are VERY subjective terms... I wouldn't trust you to know that any more than I trust myself to know it (which is not very much, I try to get as much fact as possible, but realise I'm probably nowhere near being educated enough to judge it)....

I'll give you an example:

I give you a free Coca Cola... Wow I'm nice, and seem "good".... BUT I did it because I know it'll cause you issues with your teeth because of all the sugar... That would make the same act "evil"...

Or if we want to go even further... Religious people look away.... Consider this:

God is "good", creator of the world and all... The Devil is "evil" because he wants to undo the creation... Simple enough? Not really.. Because what if the truth is this: God created the universe to be a prison for our souls, creating "reality TV" for his personal enjoyment... We have no idea, but we're trapped in this eternal cycle of rebirth, unable to fulfil our true purpose in a higher realm. Suddenly the Devil is not evil because he wants to tear down our prison, and free us so we can achieve our full potential...

I don't believe in good and evil, I believe in cause and effect... I believe it's reflected in my posts throughout this thread (and elsewhere).

 

Reply #163 Top

Quoting vStyler, reply 8
Tell you what though, if anyone out there thinks the west or anyone is doing as much to further terror on this planet than the radical ismlamic movement they need their head examined.
End of vStyler's quote


John, what IS the radical Islamic movement?  Where does the radical Islamic movement end and the moderate Islamic movement begin...and if we "destroy" (presumably by death) all those involved in the radical Islamic movement, will that not provoke the moderate Islamic movement into a more aggressive stance towards (and this is their words) "the crusaders."  

Here is what I am hearing from your posts.  Please correct me, or elucidate on, anything you are not in agreement with:

1) You are afraid of the agenda of strangers who exist on the other half of the globe and how they could harm you and your family.
2)  You do not believe your govenment is doing all it can to protect you and your family.
3)  You do not believe there are any innocents who are encompassed in "the radical Islamic movement."
4)  You believe the only answer to radical Islam, and the only answer to the threat that movement poses to you and your family is the utter destruction of Islam.

I am not fan of Islam.  As I've repeatedly said, I am no fan of any religion.  Particularly with Islam, I believe it takes all the vile aspects of the other Abrahamic religions and pumps them up on steroids (shows an overall disrespect and hatred for the joys of life and  sex, the autonomy of women, and the basic integrity of the human will).   My position is, if there were some way of destroying Islam, it would only be a matter of time before the same would have to happen to Christianity and Judaism.  Everything you loathe about Islam, could be said about Christianity during the time of the conquest of America.  Columbus came to the Americas and wiped out the natives he couldn't enslave, and yet...here in this country we HONOR that with a federal holiday!  Our early government destroyed a majority of the native population that existed relatively peacefully in this country until the Europeans came, and then displaced the remaining ones on land that wasn't worth anything, corraled them like horses and fenced them in....took their sacred places and defiled them with engraved images of the very men that enacted genocide against them (the Black Hills are sacred to the Souix....but we call it "patriotism" to glance at Mount Rushmore.  That would be like engraving Hitler's mug on a synogogue and calling it holy!)

The guts of this issue isn't about a belief system -- its about power and money and control, and destroying whatever flavor of the week that happens to fit the bill will never totally annihilate the guts of the issue.  You can't kill this thing...you're going to have to transform it.

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Reply #164 Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 9
You obviously have no experience with Israeli papers.
End of DrJBHL's quote


Got some links?  My mind is open.  I'm willing to be educated.

Reply #165 Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 11

I have, however seen plenty of evidence that when encountered, wrongdoers are punished.
End of DrJBHL's quote

I have seen plenty of evidence that when encountered, innocents are punished too... Do you really think they should just stand back and accept whatever the outcome?

Reply #166 Top

Labeling them "evil" has never sat too well with me. It gives them an edge as if they were unearthly and something to be feared. They win! :)

 

 

 

Reply #167 Top

"good" and "evil" are VERY subjective terms...
End of quote

That is line one of the lesson book entitled, "Cultural Relativism"

"A Guide For The Confused":

1. You Shall Treat Others As Your Equals And Demand The Same.

2. You Shall Treat Others As You Would Be Treated.

3, You Shall Not: deny someone else's right to live in peace. 

4. Screw up at your own risk.

Any problems with that? Simple enough?

You have different values than those?

Is there a decent human being anywhere that has a problem with these Principles of Human Conduct For The Confused?

Zero Tolerance for people who abrogate those principles. Screw up at your own risk. 

 

 

Reply #168 Top

Someone as biased as you quoting: "You Shall Treat Others As Your Equals And Demand The Same".

This is worth about as much as a grain of sand. Probably less.

Reply #169 Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 17

You Shall Treat Others As Your Equals And Demand The Same. You Shall Treat Others As You Would Be Treated.

You Shall Not: deny someone else's right to live in peace. 
End of DrJBHL's quote

Imho that's a set of bullshit rules to live by.

Everyone is not the same, and as such noone is equal (it doesn't make it right to assign different "worth" to people, we all have equal right to our lives). Zero tolerance for those who don't think like you do is hardly right....

I will NOT treat others as I would be treated, because I most definetely don't agree with everyones way they want to be treated. I know for certain that not very many want to be treated the way I like to be (with absolute honesty).

As for not deny someone else's right to live in peace, it's like saying I have to give in to any asshole storming into my life giving me hell unless I can oppose it quietly without interfering with any third party...

I prefer to live by my own base rule; To give everyone the same space for a free life as I wish to get from them...

 

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Reply #170 Top

Quoting Chris, reply 18
Someone as biased as you quoting: "You Shall Treat Others As Your Equals And Demand The Same".

This is worth about as much as a grain of sand. Probably less.
End of Chris's quote

HAHAHAHA

I will NOT treat others as I would be treated, because I most definetely don't agree with everyones way they want to be treated. I know for certain that not very many want to be treated the way I like to be (with absolute honesty).
End of quote

Live in Gaza.

 

Why it will never end? Because there aren't enough people around who won't take that sh@t, and put their foot down. HARD.

Adios. I've had enough of the futility of this. You can have the last word.

Reply #171 Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 17
That is line one of the lesson book entitled, "Cultural Relativism"

"A Guide For The Confused":

1. You Shall Treat Others As Your Equals And Demand The Same.

2. You Shall Treat Others As You Would Be Treated.
End of DrJBHL's quote


Are you?  You did nothing to soften the blow at calling Chris gullible.  You pretty much told me I was ignorant.  Are you treating others as your equal and are you treating them the way you want to be treated?  It's obvious to me that unless someone agrees with you 100% on this issue, you're writing them off as ignorants and idiots.

I'm not doing that to you, Seth.  I know you have an emotional investment in this issue that the rest of us probably do not.  I know how I would feel if I had that kind of emotional investment in an issue, so I'm going to respect you and love you anyway, even though it appears to me that you're being harsh to complete strangers here.

FWIW,  I could pick apart the cultural relativism points, and yes, I do have a few small problems with the Principles of Human Conduct for The Confused.  (They're over simplified and they aren't in line with the tenets of Naturalism, which state that the behavior of people is based on the causal connections in their biology, their history, their environment, or their chemistry.)

You see your "enemies" as evil.  I see my "enemies" as sick.  Though euthanasia might be "the answer" we would both agree on for our enemies, mine wouldn't be done with vengence.

Reply #172 Top

Are you? You did nothing to soften the blow at calling Chris gullible. You pretty much told me I was ignorant. Are you treating others as your equal and are you treating them the way you want to be treated? It's obvious to me that unless someone agrees with you 100% on this issue, you're writing them off as ignorants and idiots.
End of quote

He lied...or is gullible. Gullible isn't an insult. Lying is an insult...to me, not him. If I'm ignorant, tell me so and/or educate me. No problem. It's not an insult Karen.

As for "it appears to me that you're being harsh to complete strangers here." I have repeated the same thing over and over and it's really not difficult to understand. Try reading what they say with my eyes. False videos, etc. "Be nice" where were these guys for the past 10 years while Israelis were bombed and killed? They didn't say a word that I've read. It's the double standard that galls me: When it happens to the Israelis it's ok...but not when it happens to Hamas. Well. I don't think so, and that at least is consistent with my "Rules" that were there to point to the fact that there IS right and wrong.

You think that Israeli papers are govenment rubber stamps. They aren't. Far from it. You've never read one, I'd wager. That's being ignorant. That's not an insult either. Ignorance is universal. There is much I am ignorant of. Yes, even with this topic...but Hamas is evil. It has no plans for recognizing other people's right to life or peace. The use of the word idiot is yours, not mine. I never used it. You should avail yourself of what I wrote and also, ignorance and idiocy are not equivalent.

I see Hamas as everyone's enemy...along with all the fanatics who think nothing of my life's work: Saving lives, and instead elect to treat them as nothing. Just because someone is my enemy doesn't make him sick or perverted. Having no regard for human life and the arrogance to take it does.

I reiterate: If Hamas  and it's ilk stops trying to shell/rocket and kill Israelis (and anyone else they don't agree with) I say live in peace. If not, then they can depart horizontally or vertically...makes no difference.

That's just common sense.

Here's some news from Europe:

Fears mount of Gaza conflict spill over in Europe
Tuesday, January 6, 2009 2:12 PM EST
The Associated Press
By JOHN LEICESTER Associated Press Writer


PARIS (AP) — Government officials and Jewish leaders are concerned the conflict in Gaza may spill over into violence in Europe, with attacks reported against Jews and synagogues in France, Sweden and Britain.

Assailants rammed a burning car into the gates of a synagogue in Toulouse, in southwest France, Monday night.

A Jewish congregation in Helsingborg, in southern Sweden, was attacked Monday night by someone who "broke a window and threw in something that was burning," said police spokesman Leif Nilsson. And on Sunday slogans, including "murderers ... You broke the cease-fire," were daubed on Israel's Embassy in Stockholm.

In Denmark, a 27-year-old Dane born in Lebanon to Palestinian parents is alleged to have injured two young Israelis last week in a shooting police suspect could be linked to the Gaza crisis. Belgium ordered police in Antwerp and Brussels to be on increased state of alert" Tuesday after recent pro-Palestinian protests ended in violence and arrests.

France has Western Europe's largest Jewish and Muslim communities and a history of anti-Semitic violence flaring when tensions in the Middle East are high. In 2002, some 2,300 Jews left France for Israel because they felt unsafe. Even in normal times, anti-Semitic incidents are not uncommon.

President Nicolas Sarkozy warned in a statement Tuesday that France would not tolerate violence linked to the Gaza crisis. A day earlier, his interior minister said she was concerned about the prospect of contagion and met with the heads of the two main Muslim and Jewish groups and police officials to stress the need to "preserve national unity."

Jews in the small Strasbourg suburb of Lingolsheim in eastern France woke up Tuesday to find graffiti with words like "assassins" spray-painted on the outside walls of their synagogue. The community filed a complaint for "degradation of a place of worship," the mayor's office said.

Damage to the synagogue in Toulouse was limited to a blackened gate. Police said unlighted gasoline bombs were found in a car nearby and in the synagogue's yard. A local Jewish leader, Armand Partouche, said he believed the assailants fled when the building's alarm went off.

Local authorities promised Tuesday to boost security for synagogues and other Jewish sites in the city, Partouche said.

"We really fear that anti-Semitism will spring up again and that the current conflict will be transposed to our beautiful French republic," Partouche said.

French Muslim leader Mohammed Moussaoui condemned the attack, saying no motive could justify an assault on any place of worship.

Interior Ministry spokesman Gerard Gachet said police have not noted an increase in violence against Jews linked to the Gaza crisis. But he said tensions are likely.

In Britain, the Community Security Trust, a Jewish defense group, said it had seen a rise in anti-Semitic incidents since the start of Israel's offensive against Gaza. The group said it recorded 20-25 incidents across the country in the past week — a sizable increase from 2-3 incidents usually reported to the group over the Christmas-New Year period.

Police are investigating an arson attempt Sunday on a synagogue in north London. Assailants splashed liquid on the door and set it on fire. Police would not speculate on whether the attack was linked to the Gaza crisis.

In another incident last week, a gang of 15-20 youths walked along the main street in Golders Green, a largely Jewish neighborhood in north London, shouting "Jew" and "Free Palestine" at passers-by, said Community Security Trust spokesman Mark Gardner.

 

Reply #173 Top

All of those things are very terrible.  That doesn't mean they are all related, or all orchestrated by Hamas, or even that they are all as they appear to be.  Look:

French Muslim leader Mohammed Moussaoui condemned the attack, saying no motive could justify an assault on any place of worship. 

This guy isn't ordering the desecration (that or he's posing as righteous to protect his own butt, or for whatever reason wants to appear like he's not a bad guy).

A Jewish congregation in Helsingborg, in southern Sweden, was attacked Monday night by someone who "broke a window and threw in something that was burning," said police spokesman Leif Nilsson. And on Sunday slogans, including "murderers ... You broke the cease-fire," were daubed on Israel's Embassy in Stockholm.
End of quote


This is awful, but where's the proof it was Hamas?  Where's the proof it was Islam?  I seem to remember something about a history of church burnings at the hands of death metal bands in Sweden in the past.  I also can't get out of my head that incident over a year ago at George Washington University where, student reporter Sarah Marshak drew swastikas on her own dormitory door, and reported it as a hate crime.  I'm not saying that is what happened in southern Sweden; I'll go so far as to say I don't BELIEVE that's what happened in Sweden, but it's an option that needs to be filtered in to the possible scenarious.

In another incident last week, a gang of 15-20 youths walked along the main street in Golders Green, a largely Jewish neighborhood in north London, shouting "Jew" and "Free Palestine" at passers-by, said Community Security Trust spokesman Mark Gardner.
End of quote


AHA!  NOW we're getting somewhere!  Let's look at the connections in the perps here:  We aren't sure they're all Hamas, we're not totally convinced they're all Muslim, but you know what CAN be said about the majority of them?  Angry youths (or angry middle aged...pissed off people who still have enough energy to cause mischief, don't have enough responsibility to appreciate a quiet day at home, and don't have enough resources to appreciate the joy of shopping.)

Instead of focusing on the tribalism that separates, and then stamping labels of good and evil on these different tribes, why not FIRST find out if there isn't something that can be done to change the dynamic so that there circumstances interfere with the opportunity to perform evil deeds? (In other words, put those kids to work, fill their bellies, put some EARNED jingle in their pockets and show them that life can be better?)  I know it won't work with all of them, and I'm not saying that jobs should just be given to them because they're angry youths---some of them have chemical problems, and some of them are deluded by toxic myths, and some of them have biological issues, and mental issues...but a portion of them will learn a better way, and perhaps pass that on to offspring, as opposed to passing off more of the separating tribalism.  We've done this tribalist crap now for over 2000 years...the Hatfields and the McCoys are still feuding!

Reply #174 Top

Drj, people are going to find a million and one reasons to persuade you that someone who is hell bent on killing you ...isn't... or it's not their fault, or we're all to blame...

 

 

 

meanwhile... they are that much closer to killing you.. or someone else.

 

 

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Reply #175 Top

Quoting vStyler, reply 24
Drj, people are going to find a million and one reasons to persuade you that someone who is hell bent on killing you ...isn't... or it's not their fault, or we're all to blame...

meanwhile... they are that much closer to killing you.. or someone else. 

End of vStyler's quote



I think you know as well as I do that none of us are getting out of this alive--we're marked for death with our first breath.  I just don't think living in fear 24/7, looking over our shoulder, is anyway to make the most of the time we DO have here on earth.

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