The New Micro Expansions...

Hi XselenS!

Thanks for your feedback. We actually tried this really early on. Visually it looked great but for gameplay it was pretty irritating for those the don't zoom all far out. Huge planets blocked the view all the time, and since most battles took place around a planet - much of your game was simply moving the camera around these giant spheres.

Good Ideas XselenS!

Would you want the moons to be a seperate grav well that you can only get to from it's planet? Or are you thinking the moon would be in the gravity well but perhaps creating a addon to the gravity well? (ie. one large sphere around the planet and the center of the moon being on the edge of the gravity well and then a smaller gravity well of the moon extending out)

What I'd like to see in the second expansion is some alternatives to victory, mostly based on culture and economy. It only seems fitting that if entrenchment provides the barriers to entry, we could then focus more on our emprie building. Adding a wonder victory would be really nice and with that some wonders as well. It would be neat to have both space based and planet based wonders.

Space based

We could creat say a giant frigate facilitly that builds frigates at 3x the speed. 

A galactic trace port that increase the trade income of all trade ports in your empire by 10% (maybe an ally bonus too, ie. 10% to your trade ports, and 2% to all ally trade ports)

Planet Based

Built in the planet upgrade sceen, we could have things like:

Urban Planet where the enitre planet becomes urbanized (coruscant capital in star wars) giving a 200% population maximum

Planetary shield. Gives a very powerful planetary shield that reducees damage by 50%

Planetary cannon. Gives a charge shot that deactivates a ship or causes severe damage.

Wonder victories in Rise of Nations used a point system. ie. if you built 10 more wonder points than your opponent a timer is set off. In age of empires I believe you just had to build one wonder to win. 

I was thinking for sins it could be something like, you have to build 6 wonders, 3 space based, 2 planetary and 1 super weapon.  There are a lot of winning condition options though for wonders. It would be really important to give the option to have alternative win conditions on or off though, to keep everyone happy.

Culture

For Culture I don't have a lot of ideas. Maybe you could steal population from nearby planets rather than just allegiance.  The population from the planet would actually be distributed to your neighbouring planets.

Economics

For Economic activity, I'd like to see more in the way of trade. Rare resources would be neat. We could find them like we find artifacts and they could give mini bonuses to every gravity well with a trade port. So if you found a hard crystal deposit, all gravity wells with trade ports would get a 10% speed increase in building ships or something to that effect. Mineral deposits could boost population, fine silks or consumer goods could increase allegiance. Furthering that idea, maybe you could sell these to other players. So you could offer a safe trade route to that gravity well in exchange for credits. In other words, players would find in the trade screen different rare resources for sale, by buying them they would then set up a trade route to that port.

Diplomacy

I've seen it on these boards before, but it's good to mention it again: Spy's, terrorism and counter ops. It would be really cool to steal credits from oponents or neutral players, blow up someone's trade port or incite a revolt on a planet.

Besides that though, trading planets, setting up triple entents or mutual attack alliances would be really cool. Giving your allies fleets would be handy too. Giving objectives would be very fun. You could tell a neutral player or an ally to attack a planet for you in exchange for credits.  Maybe even setting bounties on specific ships.

As for the Third Expansion, I believe your dead on. I'm guessing a 4th race and a campaign.

Yes, I agree too, why else would they be so secretive about it?

Oh, I dunno, maybe because they don't quite have it set in stone yet?

that's true, I guess it's not too smart to get my hopes up about it, just in case it's something comepletely different

I think that the new race thing wont be fullfilled. three races is enough, four would take alot of tweaking and lots of time to develop. i love the moon idea! And i cant wait for that second expansion for diplomacy! i love this game

Perhaps I'm just missing something but I'm a little surprised to see how many calls for 'moons' pop up in the suggestion-box.

What exactly are they going to add to the game that we don't already have in some capacity?  Nearly every description I've seen for this feature makes them sound like either just another small planettype with a gravity well or a bonus to tactical/logistic slots for existing planets.  What is it (gameplay-wise) that people want from this feature that makes it so exciting?

The planetary shield you mention is actually already in the game (its a researchable TEC technology that mitigates 30%/50%/80% of planet bombing damage, depending on research level).

Yup. I know about the orbital planetary shields. My idea would be a planet based shield generator that can't be destroyed like the orbital shield generator. The shield itself could be brought to 0 so that the planet could be conquered, but the actual wonder would not be destroyed until the planet health was brought to 0.  Make sense?

Well what I was thinking was that the moons would be in that area of space slightly out of the planets gravity well where ships and fighters sometimes end up going when turning and stuff.  I wouldn't really like the idea of an extended gravity well for the moon itself since then since the moon rotates around it could make ships move kind of weird if you get the picture I'm trying to paint, unless the ships moved with the moons gravity well kind of making it a second planet.  Anyways what the moon could do though is maybe add a bonus gravity well increasion to the planet like the bonuses (dense molten core and hollow core) effect the well, that way ships move nice and free like before but you still get the moon.

This is something I was hoping the origanal planet shields would be except a bit differant since the ones I was thinking of weren't a wonder.  What I was hoping they would be is what you said, a building you build (except this one can be destroyed but it's strong) and the shield has a seperate life kind of like a second HP bar for a planet so in order to attck the planet you need to bring the shield health down to 0 first kind of like an ordinary ship with it's shield and hull. (hull being the planet and shield being planet shield)  When I saw the way the shield worked was ver simalar to the Vasari research that also helps planets defense I was kind of dissapointed lol

What I think makes moon's so exciting is that;

1. They are just awesome to look at

2. They are realistic and not having them is kind of a let down

3. They could add a new depth of strategy and luck into the game so that kind of how people rush for terran planets in games now, if an ice planet had a moon people might start rushing for them as well kind of balancing out the rush.

4. They could be a seperate upgradable thing to buff up your planet even more

5. They would be one of the best newest additions to the game if they were added.

Oh well, maybe you guys will find a way to make everyone happy in the long run or someone else will figure it out Would it be possible to increase scrolling speed or something since personally when battling around a star I find that it isn't to much trouble to look around, but then again I am one of those players that spends most of the game looking at the icon version of ships rather than the ship itself.

oh yeah definately, i gotta agree though moons really won't add more to the game other than more things to keep track of.

about the quote, part of the new starbases, (as i believe they are called) i have been told can be placed anywhere you would need, which i am guessing would count grav wells of stars, wormholes, asteriod belts, mag clouds, etc. so a need for all these defenses would really be useless with a big freaking base in the way. (thats just assuming that the base has lots of defenses on it, including flak, gauss, & hangers)

It's also assuming that the starbase is on steroids since to attack within a stars gravity well good it would also need uber speed and uber range.

Basically I'd imagine a moon to orbit around the circumference of a planet's gravity well. A moon can have mineral deposits, and it could have tactical slots (for Superweapons, Hangar Bays, etc.) and the SW would fire when the surface of the moon had rotated into position (moon spins on its axis, while orbiting)

A bit Death-Starrish, but nonetheless a cool idea.

As for the realistic view I beleive someone has a mod out on Impulse that acheives the same thing - if the mods/admins could confirm thats the effect they had removed from the game, it would be great to add into the game as a disabled, yet optional feature.

I like those ideas that are borrowed from RoN, its a good game and something like sins equivalent on the ground. for me, it basically was too fast in some instances and I didn't like how units were just so quicky killed. you basically produced all the time and it was kind of hard to save them. that's much better in sins.

however, as you pointed out, the game had a few aspects which were better done than here. the resource system for example was complex, but highly automated and imo close to perfect. I also enjoyed the rare resources that give a variety of small bonuses and were scattered around, I would really love to see something similar implemented in sins (it would finally give something that you have reason to trade for).

also, the victory conditions were flexible and very nice, where you had the wonder victory, the science victory I think, the territory victory and pure elimination. also the option that player go down when their capital was killed was a nice addition, would be nice for sins too. imagine: before the game you set the option and then if a player's homeworld is killed, he is out of the game, with some of his worlds going neutral and some going to other players, including you.

I believe, a gal civ 2 expansion also had an nice victory condition that could work for sins, something about arifacts or shards and once you have enough of time for some time ( you got points for controling them) you win. age of empires had something similar too with relics, but those could be moved. so, in essence, it would become a battle for a few select positions, where you had to decide for a direct assault on them or cuting supply by attacking other important worlds.

last thing: I wonder, in an interview I think the blairs said that the second was the "non-military" content package. before, it was more talked about diplomacy. so I wonder whether it includes some of the above stuff too, or like more empire management decisions, as opposed to fleet deployment, planet development and tech decisions, which more or less make out the most of the game.

I certainly hope espionage fits the 'non-military' description.  I still think spies and and such would be an excellent fit for this game.  There are plenty of stats available to be manipulated under the radar.

I sincerely hope to see an espionage system in that expansion. The Underground window just begs for it! If IC is making notes/recording suggestions, they probably have several pages worth already on espionage ideas from beta/post release

hm, well I'd be glad already if all the info I get by flying ships like scouts across their systems were gathered in one place to examine. like # of labs, logistcs buildings, planet upgrades, maybe fleet sizes.

but a full system with all the stats and missions, sabotage, counter-espionage and more would be cool too. though I have to say its only on second level for me. a few (but not many) things I would rather want like those victory conditions or some internal policy measures. after all, you need something to disagree on with other races other than a pure battle for resources and territory. at least it would make for more diverse games and feeling.

Going from TKINS diplomacy suggestion....

How about enhancing the pirates? 

-ability to pay them to attack a specific planet.. hunt a capital ship.. structure?

YES!

Great idea. "Target all of Player A's Trade ports" or even "500 credits/Trade port destroyed"

That would give a very interesting aspect to pirates and your idea seems pretty easy to implement.

Yes! that would indeed be nice. making pirates more accurate would make offensive strategies just as they should be... Chaotically Planned!!! (not to put you astray but honestly, you can have the pirates attack one front as you attack another, basically either splitting their fleet or distracting it.) 

but i mean making missions more complex and blah blah blah... come on!

that just makes the game harder. honesty you need to add like culture influences your relations with others aka, you get along better with those of your own race. not only that but maybe make monentary, crystal, and metal donations effect your relations with others.

espionage? come on really, i'd be more worried about the annoyance of epsionage because they need to somehow fix the mission systems before they add something as complex as espionage. if they add spies its gonna do awesomely great or terribly wrong, and the way this game is designed its got about a 75% chance of going terribly wrong. seriously, espionage isn;t meant for this type of game. leave that for the grand strategy game of Europa Universalis or Civilization.

Not to piss off anyone else on my idea killing rant but "rare" resoures wouldn't be that great either. the best alternative to that would indeed be to do like Solar Sins and add like a "super resource" bonus where you get like 200% crystal mining rate.

I hope they dont add a new race. I would much rather see them add more features and depth and open the game up to modders since they are a huge supply of new races.

I would love to see moons as well like was mentioned before. Not just something thats there but an object you have to develope and spend money on for bonuses and such. What moons bring is variety to systems and more reasons NOT to say " eh i got five others just like it" when you lose a system. More realism too. Would be cool to have a planet like jupiter with tons of moons.

With regards to gas giants I am not a big fan of colonizing them. Maybe their moons but could you imagine living on jupiter itself, pretty harsh.

I think limits on defenses should be much higher and placing them anywhere sounds very cool.

  Hmmmm... about scale, what if it were mode-ed, i mean button switchable, normal mode, i can zoom all over the place. Static mode, leaves all the planets at one size, i travel from planet to planet without seeing very much of anything beyond open black space and the phase lane dwindling into the distance. At this level, planets could be HUGE,...   and in this way, the space seems more  ... hmmm.... how to say this... well... 'constant' if that makes sense. If im at one view level and cant change, well technically i could switch buttons like the button that removes all the icons and markers on the map, but well... it seems more real. Does that make any sense? 

Hmmmm... probably not. I dont know how to explain it, except that it feels more like you are 'In' the world when the view doesnt change all the time. I mean, keep the zoom in and out there, just have a toggle to go to static close up view only. It seems it might be more strategic as well, if i cant see around the corner, or the pirates hiding behind that asteroid just beyond my planets phase lane.    Anyway, that is only my opinion, okie?

Take care and thanks for listening    Keep Gaming and Modding!!

-Teal

I think a new race in a micro expansion is unlikely. The development cycle for these micro packs is expected to be a couple of months and it would take way longer than that to add a full new race.

It's either a job for a full fledged expansion pack, or *knocks on wood* Sins 2, I think.

Some random ideas:

* Scaling: How about a 4th zoom level? Right now we have a galaxy view with all the stars and clouds, a solar system view with all the planets, and a planet or close space view. Maybe there could be a 4th planet high orbit view when you zoom in close enough where the planet fills most of the background. Something close to the scene with the battle over coruscant in SW episode 3. You could only bombard planets when your ships are in this 'layer'.

And if there were a fourth planet orbit view, you could then add planetary guns that could fire into space and planetary fighters.

*Weapon effects: While this is mostly eye candy...weapon effects could visibly change when upgraded. For example, beam weapons could be brighter, change color, or even fire differently depending on their level. Additional armor upgrades? The ships armor has renforced structures on the armor. etc...

*Flagships: This has been mentioned before on the forums. You can designate a new one if the first one has an accident . They give slight fleet bonuses, and they should look a little different from the regular cap ship design of that class. Maybe just an addition to the bridge or an expanded hanger depending on the ship class.

* Pirates:  What about different groups of pirates based in different sectors rather then the same group from several bases? You could then influence each group differently by cash means of course. Bribe a pirate group operating in your enemies space to raid or pirates in your own space to help defend. The use of pirates could be expanded upon too as some suggested already.  You could influence them to 1) hunt a specific enemy capital ship 2) raid trade lanes between specific planets 3) Steal credits / research. 4) raid and enslave populations on planets. etc. I don't think they should follow orders to the letter though. You could have a list of actions that you select with an attached money bonus if they complete it but they do pretty much what they want. 

I am really liking the idea of space stations in entrenchment if it is going to work how I think it will. No more will the non-planet / non-asteriod space or even star areas be useless. Now most battles take place around planets and asteriods but it seems like that could change with this first expansion.

Wonderful ideas!    I like your 4th View idea alot, and the addition that it is at this layer that you actually bomb. View specific abilities might be very interesting to see, and changes how the game is played in different parts. Nice.

I also really like the idea you have on slight changes to the weapons/armor/ships after upgrades to show something distinctive, that we can see that the weapon/armor/ship has been upgraded. Very very good idea. In this way, at a glance at the battlefield, you can see what levels ships are, or at least approximate. And it adds a distinct flavor. I think people would really really like this one!   

Pireate changes sounds very interesting, and it would be nice to see "groups" of different kinds of pirates, they could even fly different flags, the skull and crossbones on some, a black X on a blood-red flag for others, and perhaps a raven flag on others? Just a thought, and it would be nice to have them do different things as well. It might take a whole mini-expansion to do something like this, but certainly cool. 

-Teal