Percentage wise you are wrong my friend and that is what counts....By your logic we are all paying more than at anytime in history for everything.

Under carter wealthiest were paying 76% that came down during reagan and bush to I beleive 35% and under Bush to 33% for top tax bracket.

I check myself on this one the exact number are as follows

Carter Years 70-71%

Reagan Bush(most of the years)28.9%

Clinton years 39.8%

Bush years 33-35%

Still they paying much less now than at most times in our modern history.

Why is "percentage wise" what counts? 

Percentage wise we are all dead.  You can jack the marginal rate up to 100%, but if no one pays it, what have you done?  The proof is in the payments, and the proof is that currently the richest 1% pay the highest percent of all taxes in the past 40 years.  That is the proof. 

So when someone tells you "the rich use to pay" it is a lie.  The tax rate use to be, but the rich did not get that way by being stupid, so they dont pay that rate.

As far as part 2 of your fallacy, just remember the yachts.  So the rich can pay more?  Yea, who is going to hire people to get us out of the recession (or slowdown)?  The bum on the street?  Have you ever gotten a job from a poor person?  tax the money away, and they have no money to invest, which means no jobs, which means no expansion.  So go ahead and kill the golden goose. 

And the Yachts?  The idiots in congress decided to "soak the rich".  and destroyed the livilyhood of thousands of non-rich people.  And the Rich yawned.

It is not a theory.  It is a demonstrated fact.

If you give a rich man a million dollars how much of it do you seriously think will make its way to the bottom people?  I work at a huge world wide company and I can tell you to a tee every person of management will do whatever it takes to lie there way to success and fill their pocket books usually through bonus' for good looking "numbers".  I have caught them time and time again, and have won grievance after grievance.  Those are the facts.  And guess what Even though I win the grievance I still only get a small percentage of what I should get.  So in effect I still lose.

Look at history trickle down economics does not work never has, rich are too greedy its never enough(of course there are some expections as I dont want to be told I said all rich people are bad).

And how much pay would you get if there were no executives, investors or others' that you despise keeping that company you work for afloat?

Also, with all your grievances, how many times have you seen a co-worker wasting time on the clock, pilphering company supplies or equipment, calling in sick when they aren't... etc?

Contrary to popular belief, Rich people do not stuff their mattress with the money.  The money they do not spend on goods (like yachts - which employs people so they can earn a living) they invest.  The invested money then is used to buy infrastructure so that companies can expand - and guess what?  Hire more people!

Your attitude is what is going to kill the golden goose.  But go ahead.  At least then the rich can suffer along with everyone else, right?  Misery does love company, and the liberals sure are in the misery business.

Right! I should have seen the truth in your statement!  Poor people hire workers!  Such simplicity in the truth, and such power!  Kill the greedy rich people!  And dont worry about your job, a poor person will hire you!

Just as many times as I have seen management, its pretty equal.  Cant count the number of times that management gets a nice catered meal that costs the company wads of cash and then takes extended lunchs.  Were all people so generally its pretty equal.

Poor people who make more money and have some help spend more money, thus creating more jobs as more goods are needed, and giving rich people(i.e.business owners)more profits and more money.  Then on top of that with rich people with more money they can do what you said by spending more as well.  But if that money, for the most part, never makes it to the bottom then the system doesnt work.  Look at FDR he knew it.  He tried it your way first and it failed terribly.  Then he went back and started from the bottom up and it worked.

I am so glad you failed economics.

Just for your education, poor people cannot buy if there is nothing to buy.  IN order to make things to buy, you have to have capital.  That does not come from Poor people.  SO in your upside down world, the wealth flows from the bottom up.  it does in a feudal society, not in a capitalistic one.  I would suggest you put down Karl Marx and pick up Adam Smith.

And then when you have understood it, come back and correct your statement.

We already have the infastructure to build and/or deliver the goods correct?  At this point it would simply be a matter of supply and demand.  If middle class and poorer people have more money and spend more money then business' will have to make more items thus putting people to work.  Also this can create new business as well.  People take out loans all the time to start business.  If the market and demand is there then if thye run a smart business they will flourish.  I understand rich people need money to do these things, what I am saying is there needs to be much more balance.  I am not saying punish the rich till they cant stand anymore.  But dont do the same to the poor either.  Right now the pendulum(spelling) has swung too far the other way.  Your Economics should have taught you that you cant have a society with just rich and poor and a small middle class right? 

Did the tooth fairy create it?  Think man!  And the infrastructure requires upkeep (you have heard of the roads, right? Although they are government, the same applies to private companies and assets).

Do the banks print the money?  Again you are not thinking.  Now where does the money come from?

Balance?  There is Balance.  Gates was not born a billionaire.  And yes, anyone can do it! Just check out the Pursuit of Happiness for another tale of woe.  yea right.  Why shoul YOU decide what everyone can and cannot make.  That is communism.  The sad fact is that you have no clue on what you are talking about.  There is no mass division of society.  Most of the poor dont stay that way all their lives.  Most of the rich EARNED their money.  And most are still in the middle class.

Would it suprise you to know that the percent in the middle class has not changed by 1% since the 1960s?  It is nto rocket science.  it is an arbitray division the government assigns.  Which means how poor are the poor?  yea, like they are starving (sure you can find exceptions - there are always people that drop out of society).  But this class warfare is stupid.  The rich invest.  That makes money to borrow.  They spend on extravagant stuff, sure.  That makes jobs (like for yacht makers).

And the kicker?  The poor represent 12.5% of the population, and pay NO federal Income taxes.  The rich 1% pay 40%, and the top 50% pay 98%.  SO how much more do you want to milk them?  Instead of just spouting stupid idiocies left over from grammar school, do the research and learn the lies you have been told.  The reality is we can tax them 100%.  They wont pay, but they wont be here to invest and spend either.  Kill the golden goose, and then bitch about "fair shares".

But do you file a grievance against your co-workers when you see it?  Or should complaints only be made against management?

no thats not my job, but I certainly dont encourage any sort of complete goofing off.  I think that everyone even management should get some time to goof off but it has to be within reason.  I can tell you this though as a former union steward if I go into a situation where an employee has a horrible attendence record, my job is to fight for them but in our private meeting before going in with management I let them have it so to speak.  I tell them straight out they need to clean up their act or I cant represent them because there is nothing I can do.

So are you saying that every factory/workplace we have in our country is either in disrepair and/or operating to full capacity?  I can tell you that mine isn't.  We have plenty of room at this point to move more commerce.

No but it has flucuated usually higher during rebuplican administrations up to 15% during Reagan and Bush 1.  My bigger question to you would be how come we as a country were able to bring that rate down during Kennedy/Johnsons "Great Society" years from about 22-23% to about 12% in the late 60's but have remained stagnant on it since then?  Are you saying, well you need to have poor people so just let them wallow in their situations?  Why is it that we cant cut that number down to single didgets at least?  Why do we have to settle?  I thought all conservatives were true patriots, at least that is what they all say. Well then why not get patriotic about this rather then just say their will always be poor people.  I say if we believe that we can eliminate poverty in the US then I think we can.  Unfortunately for rich folks that may mean having one less yacht or a couple less houses or whatever.  To me(and this is just my thought)you are saying that it is ok for us to have all these rich folks indulge themselves while we have people like the lady I saw while delivering packages the other day who lives in a piece of junk apt., who is mentally disabled, who answered the door with her belt holding up part of her shirt exposing part of undergarments because no one was there to help her.  Imagine is she opened the door for the wrong person.  I am sorry to be so explicit but I see people like this all the time, and I simply know its not fair because they never had a chance and they need help.  And no I dont mean just mentally disabled people, all sorts never had a chance.

This statement is being made about the poverty class not the middle class, I should have made that part clear, my apologies.

Mooseplow:

So it is your job to make formal complaints about management, but never about your co-workers.  Your co-workers can steal all they want and you will look the other way everytime, but if management pisses you off, then heads should roll?

Hypocrit!

much, much more = gorges hisself on the raw flesh of christian infants while using acrobat to alter his e-boarding passe so tsa won't discover--until it's too late--he's really a 33rd degree al-quaeda shriner shotcaller AND triple-secret supreme chief of the kenyan mau mau (da worst kind) muslim crips?

is every road in disrepair or over used?   No,of course not.  But without care and upkeep, it will be!  Again you are looking at this minute and extropolating out to the far future.  A lemming attitude, but not one that is going to produce jobs or returns for investors.

No it has not.  You missed the point.  The "poor", "middle class", and "rich" are arbitrary delinieations that have no basis in reality.  By today's world standards, our poor are Rich.  The middle class will not disappear for many reasons, but the reason you will never find it changing is that you are using government statistics and they always grade on a bell curve.

Please read my whole statement as I say right in there that I do say stuff to people if need be.  But you will never and I mean never  see management doing that to other management.  I make sure my Brothers and sisters act responsibly and honestly.  However management time and again will cover up for each other even when they know the other is lying, again this is based on many supervisors caught over the years.

[quote who="kurtin" reply="4" id="1840830"]Obama is a fine candidate, and I'm sure he can do wonders for this country where President Bush and his administration has failed

Ditto obama is the man to lead us forward!

Mooseplow:  Atlas Shrugged.  You haven't read it, and if you did, you didn't get it.  Read it again.  Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand

Mooseplow:

I did read your statement and I find your attitude about management ignorant, arrogant and prejudice... unless you are only talking about the company you work for, then I'll take some of that back. 

The fact you make formal complaints against management, but only "make sure" your co-workers act responsibly and honorably shows your prejudice.

And unless you share parents with your co-workers, none of them are "brothers" or "sisters"... unless of course, you are a Marxist, then I question your respect for freedom.