Paladin77 Paladin77

It all started with the Shah of Iran.

It all started with the Shah of Iran.

President James Carter is the reason we are at war

September 10–September 11, 1976: Croatian Freedom Fighters hijack a TWA airliner, diverting it to , , and then to , demanding a manifesto be printed. One police officer was killed and three injured during an attempt to defuse a bomb that contained their communiques in a train station locker. Zvonko Busic who served 32 years in prison for the attack was released and returned to to a heroes welcome in July 2008.

This was the kind of crap we had to deal with before the flood gates opened.

When the stopped supporting we lost a valued ally in the region. When President Carter allowed his people to engineer the fall of the Shah of Iran to please his humanitarian base of nuts, we opened up a can of worms that is still messing with us today.

While a Muslim himself, the Shah gradually lost support from the Shi'a clergy of , particularly due to his strong policy of Modernization and recognition of . Yes, this evil dictator did the unthinkable. He allowed women to have the same rights as men, as written in the Quran, he recognized as a state and said they deserved to live. American and international human rights groups said that he had 100 thousand political prisoners over his 39 year dictatorship. These sweet innocent political prisoners did minor things to get arrested like try to kill the Shah, his family, overthrow the country and install a theocracy and with the help of President James Carter the terrorist took power.

From the Shah of Iran on The role of the : I did not know it then – perhaps I did not want to know – but it is clear to me now that the Americans wanted me out. Clearly this is what the human rights advocates in the State Department wanted... What was I to make of the Administration's sudden decision to call former Under Secretary of State George Ball to the White House as an adviser on Iran?... Ball was among those Americans who wanted to abandon me and ultimately my country.

November 4, 1979 Iran Hostage Crisis takes place. Iranian Muslim students take over the American Embassy, taking 52 diplomats hostage for 444 days. (Ended January 20, 1981) This was the thanks we received from the grateful nation of after we helped free them from the Shah’s brutal dictatorship. further thanked us by forming and funding a small diplomatic and peace loving organization called Hezbollah. Their stated goals are to bring about love peace and harmony throughout the world, by the destruction of , the , the , and to do this all they want is world wide Islamic rule.

December 1979 a rumor was started that the president of was going to switch sides and kick the Soviets out. Soviet forces invaded and assassinated the president and installed another leader. It has been suggested that President Carter and his administration started the rumor in order to get the soviets to take the news off of the hostage crisis he was dealing with. It is just a suggestion and I have no proof that this was true. Either way this was the start of the Islamic terrorist group the base. Also known as Al Qaeda.

June 3, 1980 a bomb destroys most of the exhibits in the Statue of Liberty story room. No one is arrested, but Croatian separatists are suspected. Notice that Muslim groups are attacking us.

October 6, 1981, Muhammad Anwar Al Sadat was assassinated during the annual 6th October victory parade in . A fatwa approving the assassination had been obtained from Omar Abdel-Rahman, a cleric later convicted in the for his role in the 1993 bombing. In doing this Islamic terrorist successfully destroyed the only two Muslim leaders that recognized and stopped the war on . Providing an object lesson to all other Muslim leaders.

August 11, 1982 a bomb explodes on Pan Am Flight 830, enroute from to , killing one teenager and injuring 15 passengers.

April 18, 1983 United States Embassy bombing takes place. A stolen van carrying 2,000 pounds of explosives slammed into the U.S. Embassy in killing 63 people including 18 Americans. Hezbollah Islamic terrorists responsible, you know that peace loving organization from .

October 23, 1983 Marine Barracks Bombing occurs. A truck carrying 2500 pounds of explosives crashed through the gates of a US Marine barracks in killing 241 American servicemen and wounding 81. Hezbollah responsible. 58 French troops from the multinational force are also killed in a separate attack. Hezbollah also responsible, and did you know that they were started and funded by .

November 9, 1983: U.S. Senate bombing. A time bomb consisting of several sticks of dynamite explodes at the United States Senate in response to the invasion of . No one was injured, a group known as the Armed Resistance Unit claims responsibility.

April 14, 1985 — military aircraft, acting on President Ronald Reagan's orders to “pre-empt and discourage” Libyan terrorism, struck the North African nation Monday night.

June 14, 1985 TWA Flight 847 skyjacking, Hezbollah, terrorists take passengers of an Athens-Rome flight hostage, murdering US Navy Seaman, Robert Stethem. Just another peaceful demonstration by our friends in .

October 7 – October 10: Achille Lauro cruise ship hijacking by Palestinian Liberation Front, a group started and funded by the , during which passenger Leon Klinghoffer, a 69 year-old wheelchair-bound Jewish American citizen, is shot dead and thrown overboard.

April 5, 1986 discotheque bombing. A Berlin discotheque frequented by US servicemen was bombed, killing 3 people--A Turkish woman and two US servicemen--and injuring 230 including over 50 US servicemen. was held responsible for this act. At this point the president let loose the dogs of war. If the DIA will get off their butts and allow me to tell the story you will find that we were very busy from that time on.

October 11 1986 – President Reagan walks out of the summit with Grobachev, refusing to give up the strategic defense initiative missile defense in exchange for more worthless communist promises. Grobachev himself has cited this as the moment that won the cold war.

June 12, 1987 Berlin Germany- President Reagan gives his “tear down this wall” speech at the gate. He said that communism will rot from within and with a little help he was right.

April 12, 1988 Japanese Red Army terrorist Yu Kikumura was arrested at a rest stop on the turnpike in possession of pipe bombs on his way to . For those that don’t remember the Red Army they were also funded by the .

December 21, 1988 a bomb blows up Pan Am flight 103 in flight over . is responsible and they paid for it in more than one way.

February, 1989 Soviets complete their humiliating pullout from , leaving one million dead after ten years of fighting.

August 2, 1990 Saddam Hussein invades .

February 27, 1991 the United States Military and its Allies crush Saddam Hussein’s vaunted “million man army” in 100 hours.

December 21, 1991 the collapses just as President Reagan said it would.

August, 1992 President George H. Bush deploys the military to to prevent a humanitarian disaster and mass starvation. One of his orders was never to take a side or perform police actions. Only make sure the food goes to the people.

November 4, 1992 Governor Bill Clinton wins the Electoral College and the presidency with 43% of the popular vote.

February 26, 1993 when a car bomb was detonated below Tower One of the in . The attack was planned by a group of conspirators including Ramzi Yousef, Mahmud Abouhalima, Mohammad Salameh, Nidal Ayyad, Abdul Rahman Yasin and Ahmad Ajaj. They received financing from Khaled Shaikh Mohammed, Yousef's uncle. In March 1994, four men were convicted of carrying out the bombing. Though it was known by intelligence officials that they belonged to the group Al-Qaeda nothing was done to hunt down the group or its leader. People were arrested and convicted so the case was closed.

April 19, 1993 the administration assaults the Branch Davidian compound in and burn 76 people including 21 children to death. President Clinton blames it all on Attorney Genera, Janet Reno.

May 28, 1993 President Clinton passes the largest tax increase in world history.

June, 1993 President Clinton expands his mission to feed the hungry into nation building and police action but does not properly arm and equip the troops.

June, 1993 Failed New York City landmark bomb plot. When allowed the FBI can do some great work.

October, 1993 Al-Qaeda linked terrorist attack troops in . 18 soldiers die in the “Black Hawk Down” scenario. But take out thousands of Somali terrorists. President Clinton responds by pulling out US troops. Bin Laden later said this event convinced him that the American soldier is a paper tiger and inspired the 9/11 attacks.

April, 1994 the Rwandan genocide begins. Despite systematic rape campaigns and ethnic murders, President Clinton and his administration do nothing to stop the slaughter.

October 21, 1994, the and signed the "Agreed Framework", whereby agreed to freeze its plutonium production program in exchange for fuel, economic cooperation, and the construction of two modern nuclear power plants powered by light-water reactors. Eventually, 's existing nuclear facilities were to be dismantled, and the spent reactor fuel taken out of the country.

December 11, 1994 a small bomb explodes on board Philippine Airlines Flight 434, killing a Japanese businessman. Authorities found out that Ramzi Yousef planted the bomb to test it for his planned terrorist attack to blow up a dozen planes over the in one day. This plan was later changed to the attacks of 9/11.

October 17, 1995 President Clinton says, “Probably there are people in this room still mad at me at the budge because you think I raised your taxes too much. It might surprise you to know that I think I raised them too much, too.”

In conjunction with several other Islamic militant leaders, bin Laden issued two fatwa in 1996 and then again in 1998 that Muslims should force the and its allies to withdraw their military forces from the , by attacking American military and civilian targets.

February, 1996 ’s religious leader Hassan Turabi, writes President Clinton offering to turn over Bin Laden. (Think about this not in hindsight but in actuality. A man with a paramilitary organization publically states that he is going to attack US interests abroad, and soon after the chief mullah of the country this man is living in is offering him to you.)  President Clinton refuses, fearing the has no legal reason to take custody of him. (Bin Laden is now linked to two terrorist attacks on Americans)

In May 1996, the Sudanese capitulated to pressure and asked Bin Laden to leave, despite their feeling that he could be monitored better in than elsewhere.

June 25, 1996 Terrorists bomb the military’s barracks in . This has now been linked to Bin Laden. President Clinton does nothing at the time.

August, 1996 Hassan Turabi again offers to turn over Bin Laden. President Clinton does not accept the offer again. (Bin Laden is now linked to four terrorist attacks on Americans)

November 5, 1996 President Clinton wins reelection but falls short of winning half the votes cast.

April, 1997 President Omar Hassan Ahmed Bashir of Sudan “offered the arrest, and extradition of Bin Laden and detailed intelligence data about the global networks constructed in Egypt’s Islamic Jihad, Iran’s Hezbollah, and the Palestinian Hamas,” According to regional expert Mansor Ijaz. President Clinton ignores him. (Bin Laden is now linked to three and one suspected terrorist attacks on Americans and just maybe Sudan knows something we don’t know, and being or wanting to be a friend to us is trying to help us.)

February, 1998 ’s intelligence chief, Gutbi al-Mahdi wrote directly to the FBI to offer Bin Laden. (Bin Laden is now linked to three terrorist attacks on Americans and just maybe knows something we don’t know and maybe they want to be our friend.)

Bin Laden left for Afghanistan, taking with him Ayman Zawahiri, considered by the U.S. to be the chief planner of the Sept. 11 attacks; Mamdouh Mahmud Salim, who traveled frequently to Germany to obtain electronic equipment for Al Qaeda; Wadih El-Hage, Bin Laden's personal secretary and roving emissary, now serving a life sentence in the U.S. for his role in the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya; and Fazul Abdullah Mohammed and Saif Adel, also accused of carrying out the embassy attacks.

August 7, 1998 hundreds of people were killed in simultaneous car bomb explosions at the embassies in the East African capital cities of , and . The attacks, linked to local members of the al Qaeda terrorist network headed by Osama bin Laden, brought bin Laden and al Qaeda to international attention for the first time as far as the news media are concerned. Bin Laden was then indicted in federal court for his alleged involvement in the 1998 embassy bombings in , and , and is on the US Federal Bureau of Investigation's Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list.

August 20, 1998 someone in the administration discovered that Osama Bin Laden might be in the . With great decisiveness the President ordered the immediate bombing of the Al-Shifa pharmaceutical plant. The plant had no connections to Bin Laden and the had been trying to give Bin Laden to us for years. Oh by the way, in a totally unrelated story, Monica Lewinsky testified in front of the grand jury the next day. Who needed as a friend anyway?

August 21, 1998 President Clinton in another bold decisive move ordered missile strikes against Al Qaeda terrorist training camps in . A little too late since Bin Laden and his troops had moved to and were now moving to after he was kicked out of . The camps were mostly empty but they did get 34 people not members of AQ, But as a presidential hopeful suggested doing the same thing may I remind all that Pakistan screamed its outrage at the US violation of its airspace, wonder if they will get mad when President Obama invades their country? Is that not an act of war from a man that wants peace?

After the missile attacks Osama bin Laden pledged to attack the again. Ayman al-Zawahiri made a phone call to a Newsweek reporter, stating that "The war has only just begun; the Americans should now await the answer."

December 16, 1998 President Clinton attacks . In a totally unrelated story the House leaders delay the impeachment debate until the dust settles from the preemptive war started by the President.

December 14, 1999 Ahmed Ressam is arrested. His plan to blow up international airport on New Year’s Eve. Look up the “Millennium bomber.” Though the administration tried to claim credit for stopping this terrorist attack it was later discovered that a customs agent busted him when he tried to cross the border from into the .

October 12, 2000 Al-Qaeda terrorist detonate a dinghy packed with explosives into the USS Cole, killing 17 Sailors. President Clinton did almost nothing. The investigation said AQ was to blame but no action was taken. Where is a Lewinsky testimony when you need one?

December, 2000 President Clinton receives Intel about Osama Bin Laden’s location. Military advisors urge a strike. The President refuses.

September 11. 2001 terrorist hijack four airliners. They fly two of them into ’s world trade towers, another hits the pentagon. Passengers aboard the fourth jet give their lives to stop the hijackers. President Bush tells Vice President Cheney, “We’re at war, Dick. We’re going to find out who did this and kick their ass.” The democrats in congress asked, he had 8 months on the job why didn’t he stop this from happening? They seem to ignore the seven years of attacks from the same terror group prior to Mr. Bush taking office.

September 12, 2001 Saddam Hussein is the only world leader to praise Bin Laden and the attacks. Even who we don’t have diplomatic relations with was offering help and Intel.

September 14, 2001

Mr. DASCHLE (for himself and Mr. LOTT) introduced the following joint resolution; which was read twice, considered, read the third time, and passed (This was written by Senator Daschel)

SEC. 2. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.

September 18, 2001 the first in a series of anthrax mail attacks targets government and the media.

October 7, 2001 after being criticized by the democrats for not having attacked anyone yet, President Bush authorizes the invasion of and the destruction of Al-Qaeda’s safe havens. Liberals claim we can’t win. Why in the world did they scream we should bomb people if they don’t think we can win?

November 12, 2001 the ruling Taliban is driven out of the capitol city of . Wait, it can’t work and we will lose is what we are told yet in over a month we took the capitol city?

December 9, 2001 the Taliban collapses baffling liberals around the world who said it could not be done. After all the Soviets fought for ten years and lost badly and we did it in 2 months. The war is not over but the enemy is in retreat and is forced to fight only in summer months and in small pockets of the country.

January 29, 2002 President Bush identified , , and as an “Axis of Evil” and pledges to deny them WMD. We were told that the president should not have done that, it will make these people angry at us and they might attack us. has been attacking us since 1979, has been messing with us for 50 years, is the new kid on the block with only 11 years of messing with us.

October 2, 2002 Congressional resolution in part states:

Whereas the United States is determined to prosecute the war on terrorism and Iraq's ongoing support for international terrorist groups combined with its development of weapons of mass destruction in direct violation of its obligations under the 1991 cease-fire and other United Nations Security Council resolutions make clear that it is in the national security interests of the United States and in furtherance of the war on terrorism that all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions be enforced, including through the use of force if necessary;

November 8, 2002 the United Nations Resolution 1441 demands Saddam disarm or face “grave consequences”

3. Decides that, in order to begin to comply with its disarmament obligations, in addition to submitting the required biannual declarations, the Government of Iraq shall provide to UNMOVIC, the IAEA, and the Council, not later than 30 days from the date of this resolution, a currently accurate, full, and complete declaration of all aspects of its programmes to develop chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, and other delivery systems such as unmanned aerial vehicles and dispersal systems designed for use on aircraft, including any holdings and precise locations of such weapons, components, sub-components, stocks of agents, and related material and equipment, the locations and work of its research, development and production facilities, as well as all other chemical, biological, and nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to weapon production or material;

March 19, 2003 the US and dozens of allied nations restart the war that had been on hold since 1991 while we waited for Iraq to comply with the deal it signed. We were told that we should not have gone in there and we should not have gone in alone. The war was illegal. Congress approved it, the UN approved it, and more than a dozen nations joined us in the fighting. To the political enemies of the president this is going it alone. We were told to expect ten thousand dead troops the first day of battle and it would take years to take .

April 9, 2003 falls to US troops. Less than 30 days, good job troops!

December 13, 2003 Saddam Hussein is pulled out of a rat hole by members of the 4th ID so much for fighting to the death to keep from being humiliated by being captured.

October 8, 2006 Thanks to President Clinton giving North Korea a nuclear power plant, the beloved leader, Kim Jong Il detonates a nuclear bomb while his people starve and he demands we supply him with more food or else.

January 10, 2007 President George W. Bush orders a troop surge in to quell the violence. Democrats declare the policy and our troops doomed to fail that same week.

If you notice since 2001 we stopped being attacked by any and all organized terrorists on our own soil, the only terror organizations out there fighting at all are , , and the PLO or whatever name they are running under now. If you recall, President Bush said that , , and were an axis of evil. Now we have Iran and North Korea as an axis of evil, Iran is not helping terrorists anymore, Iran is sort of bogged down and can’t seem to make any good hits either in Israel or the US and North Korea is starting to conform to international requests to play nice.

Every time we as a nation try to be nice to our enemies before we defeat them we are attacked. The terrorists that we are dealing with were started and funded by the under the KGB chief Yuri Andropov, as a way to counter the success of freedom and the decline of communism around the world. This was done because of the arrogance of the soviets who believed that they could control what they created. Once the monster was out of the cage they rapidly lost control and the advanced training they provided the terrorists was passed on to others completely out of their control to the point that now Russia is battling the terrorists tactics they once taught. No one is safe until the enemy is fought and defeated. Only one country is doing this successfully and that is the .

166,637 views 134 replies
Reply #76 Top

Unlike US oil Imports for which a large portion are from not so friendly often not so stable coutries with nationalized oil industries.
End of quote

I am sure Canada and Mexico will be surprised to find out that they are not friendly nations since the majority of our oil comes from those two nations, the third largest supplier of oil is Venezuela, not our best friend but we can always change leaders there if we have to.

Reply #77 Top

sorry double posted

Reply #78 Top

I am sure Canada and Mexico will be surprised to find out that they are not friendly nations
End of quote

I didn't say they were. Canadian Oil isn't nationalized so it should be obvious that I was not refering to them. Although PMEX is state run I am not referring to them either. They are our 3rd largest supplier btw not the 2nd however their developed wells are drying up rather quickly so expect them to drop even further down the list. Venezuela has only recently fully nationalized their oil industry which is a problem but this only officially happened last year so it is too early tell what will become of that situation.

Venezuela, not our best friend but we can always change leaders there if we have to.
End of quote

Interesting to hear you suggest that since you have called many of my other post about how us foreign policy revolves around oil conspiracy theories.

Reply #79 Top

So what you are saying is that we need to keep doing what we have been doing since the 70’s
End of quote

No Im saying we really need to speed things up because our reliance on foreign oil has only grown since the 70's. More and more countries have nationalized their oil resources and the geopolitical environment around the globe continues to worsen.

It took 30 years for solar and wind power to begin to be more than something to test.
End of quote

Untrue. My house has been off the grid for a long time.

Nuclear power has been around but idiots have stooped its growth for 30 years and it is only now starting to move forward
End of quote

There is nothing idiotic about the concerns regarding the safety of nuclear power generation. We have made advances in the field of nuclear power generation over the past 30 years even though we haven't built any new commercial plants.  Nuclear power is definately something that should be included in us energy policy. One thing I can say though...It is expensive...My rates went through the roof when a nuke plant was built in my state. That is probably the biggest reason my house is off the grid and has been for years.

Reply #80 Top

Quoting Smoothseas, reply 17
Please name one oil substitute that is ready to go right now. we as a nation have been moving towards alternatives since the 1970’s this is not new or hiddenTheres plenty of alternatives out there. Unfortunatly the politicians are all getting bankrolled by opposing energy interests.
End of Smoothseas's quote

YOu were asked to name one (and then 2 by Leauki). not spout talking points.  Stop with the talking points already and give concretes.  And you can go on about the black helicopters - after provding some facts (none given so far).

Reply #81 Top

It took 30 years for solar and wind power to begin to be more than something to test.
Untrue. My house has been off the grid for a long time.
End of quote

Non-sequitir. That your house has it for an indeterminate time does not deny that the length of time it took to become viable.  And you still have not given 2 examples of oil replacement.

Can you debate?  Or just continue to spout non-sequitirs and talking points?

 

Reply #82 Top

Can you debate? Or just continue to spout non-sequitirs and talking points?
End of quote

 I vote talking points, he is good at throwing up dust and muddying up the waters of a debate but rarely does he bother to come up with any substance to support his statements or facts to back up his claims or answers to follow up questions. Instead he tries to misdirect when challenged. He can’t be bothered to provide facts and stated he does not care that his statements are believed or not. This leads me to believe he sticks to talking points because he has nothing else.

Reply #83 Top

No Im saying we really need to speed things up because our reliance on foreign oil has only grown since the 70's.
End of quote

Remember the Walkman? It was invented by Sony, they had a portable cassette player that could not power the speakers that went with it, and they had headphones that burned out when attached to a regular sound system. Before both were scrapped the chief engineer tried to make the ideas work and came up with the walkman. With your logic why invent a walkman when they could have just invented the MP3 player or the IPod. Why invent the record player when they could have invented the CD player? They should have sped up the invention process and eliminated all the stuff in the middle.

 

People and nations have been looking for an oil substitute since WWII and have not found it. Are you suggesting that they are not working fast enough? Are you suggesting that they could find it faster but are choosing not to become the next trillionaire for some reason? if a replacement for oil is found and it is cheep the person that discovers it will become on of the richest people in the world but for some reason they choose not do discover it yet.

 

So to say we need to speed up the diversification and discoveries of replacements to oil is meaningless unless you have the answer and choose not to use it yet. Every nation in the world is looking for this replacement, every person in the field of power generation is working on it in one way or another and after 69 years all we have come up with is bio-diesel, solar, wind, coal oil, and nuclear power and none of them are ready to replace oil. bio-diesel has been around since WWII, wind power has been around since the 1600’s, coal oil was replaced by petroleum oil in the 1800’s, so the only new things on the market are nuclear power which came around in 1939 and solar power which came about in the 1960’s. Did I miss anything?

Reply #84 Top

People and nations have been looking for an oil substitute since WWII and have not found it.
End of quote

Theres plenry of alternatives......some are not as economical..some are not as safe..some are only viable on a regional basis. There is no single solution and trying to find one is not really a good ideea. After all having more alternatives to choose from keeps prices competitive.

Reply #85 Top

That your house has it for an indeterminate time does not deny that the length of time it took to become viable.
End of quote

People have been making their homes more energy efficient and adding things like solar panels and wind generators for decades. As to commercial installations the tech has been there but politicians and certain lobby groups have been the biggest roadblock.

Reply #86 Top

Theres plenry of alternatives......some are not as economical..some are not as safe..some are only viable on a regional basis. There is no single solution and trying to find one is not really a good ideea. After all having more alternatives to choose from keeps prices competitive.
End of quote

Synthetic gasoline costs only 25 dollars a gallon. I have serious doubts that it keeps oil competitive. Converted coal oil to gasoline cost only 20 dollars a barrel. Much less than the 100 dollars a barrel we are paying now. Do you see the price of oil being kept competitive?

Reply #87 Top

Do you see the price of oil being kept competitive?
End of quote

We are very close to peak oil production. If Canada wasnt producing the amount of syncrude that it does, If the US hadnt converted as much power generation to NG, France to Nuke,Brazil to E85 fuels Etc. then the price of oil would be extremely high.

 

So yes if people have options such as solar panels, wind generators, ng, biofuels, etc. energy prices will be more competitive.

 

 

Reply #88 Top

So yes if people have options such as solar panels, wind generators, ng, biofuels, etc. energy prices will be more competitive.
End of quote

I fail to see how this is true, not one of them makes even a slight dent in the oil consumption. NG is a petroleum product so it does not really help. Bio-fuels are not in wide distribution or use. Wind generators are a marginal help.

Reply #89 Top

I fail to see how this is true, not one of them makes even a slight dent in the oil consumption
End of quote

Everything matters when oil production is as close to peak as it is. People speculate in crude futures by watching the margin between estimated demand and peak numbers.

 

Bio-fuels are not in wide distribution or use
End of quote

Not in the US but in countries like brazil they do.

 

And etc. would include nuke...Coutries like france have 80%+ nuke power gen capacity.

 

We're in a global economy especially when it comes to energy so look beyond ur backyard.

Reply #90 Top

Everything matters when oil production is as close to peak as it is. People speculate in crude futures by watching the margin between estimated demand and peak numbers.
End of quote

This is an interesting statement from you since you have argued in the past that drilling for more oil won’t do much good.

 

As for the rest of your argument I am thinking outside my back yard. I see the only people that are doing anything useful is America. Drilling will solve the short term crisis, provide breathing room for alternatives to be refined and brought on line. The two new nuclear plants being built in Florida will take 10 years to build and go on line. By then it won’t make much of a dent and we will still have the same problems. This is stuff that should have been dealt with decades ago and ignored. Back to the topic the problem was we allowed terrorism to get a foot hold in Iran and we are still paying the price of our stupidity.

 

Reply #91 Top

This is an interesting statement from you since you have argued in the past that drilling for more oil won’t do much good.
End of quote

 

It won't.....Alternatives are what really matter because when a non opec entity ups their production opec has a meeting and decreases theirs to jack the price back up to what they want it to be.  That is why now that crude has dropped in the past few weeks, yesterday opec called for another meeting to discuss production levels.

Reply #92 Top

Drilling will solve the short term crisis
End of quote

We are drilling new wells all the time.

As far as new leases such as the politically disputed OCS and ANWR :

Short Term Not a chance.......Existing drill rigs, deepwater drill rigs and drillships are booked with current projects so expect about 2 years to build new ones. Then they drill...move....drill...move drill, etc. until they make a find that is big enough to support the massive cost to position a production rig and lay pipeline that ties into an existing pipeline.

 

Reply #93 Top

It won't.....Alternatives are what really matter because when a non opec entity ups their production opec has a meeting and decreases theirs to jack the price back up to what they want it to be. That is why now that crude has dropped in the past few weeks, yesterday opec called for another meeting to discuss production levels.
End of quote

No you are wrong again.  Drilling will make an impact, but not what is being promised.  The problem is everyone now is speaking to the wants, not the realities (Obama actually did speak to the realities early in his campaign, but has now switched to the wants).

Drilling now, drilling here (as the mantra goes) will bring enough production on line to forestall alternatives, and yes, reduce price (not to less than $1/gallon, but back to around $2/gal).  But that reduction will come at the expense of alternatives.  As Paladin points out, most are not feasible, and some that are, are not politically correct.

Is either candidate telling you that now?  No.  Mostly because people do not want to hear it.  They want to hear "reduce price now".  So that is what they are being told.

OPEC is playing a game of chicken.  Saudi Arabia knows the limits, but the lunatics of OPEC do not (like Iran).  They know how much they can milk the system, before they lose it, so they push the limit.  The cure is alternatives, but unless you want to outlaw oil (highly unlikely no matter how crazy the world gets), alternatives will not be feasible unless the lunatics of OPEC win, and the price of oil not only goes higher, but stays that way (a few months of $140/barrell is not going to do the trick since all alternatives will require years to come on line, and no one is going to invest in anything if the price threatens to wipe out the advantages of the investment).

Reply #94 Top

reduce price (not to less than $1/gallon, but back to around $2/gal).
End of quote

There is no way the US can increase production enough to do such a thing. Our demand far exceeds the rate at which we can get our own reserves out of the ground. The price is going to come down as global economies slow down because demand is dropping rapidly. It will also come down as the futures market bubble pops(very much what is happening right now). The analysts I listen to expect crude to get to  around 90 a barrel. Its a very complex issue but the quicker we get our oil demand down the better off we will be in the long term. Even the Opec countries are smart enough to be currently making moves towards alternatives because they know they are better off selling the oil to us instead of using it themselves.

Reply #95 Top

There is no way the US can increase production enough to do such a thing.
End of quote

yes it can.  As I said, below $1 is not doable.  $2 is doable.  When Crude was $90/barrell, the price of gas was in the low $2 - that is around $2.

Reply #96 Top

Which proves my point that US Domestic production has very little effect the price of oil.  What you will probably see if crude does get down to 90$/barrel is US production drop and the oil companies buying the difference from foreign suppliers.

Reply #97 Top

I am not convinced how finding an alternative for oil will have any impact on the problem of terrorists trying to kill Jews and Christians (and, of course, Muslims).

Seems to me like not needing oil anymore will only make it more difficult to justify a military presence in the region that breeds the terrorists. And without such a military presence, some dictator can take over, organise the vermin, and attack us.

So what exactly are we trying to do here?

Find an alternative for oil because it is cheaper? That's a good idea.

Find an alternative for oil because it is better for the environment? Maybe, why not; if it really is better for the environment and does not just shift the polution.

Find an alternative for oil so we don't have to buy it from a region that would be dirt poor if we didn't buy "their" oil? That would likely only make the nationalists and fundamentalists stronger.

Now, do we absolutely require more fundamentalists and Arab nationalists?

The usual "argument" of the left is that a military presence causes Arabs and Afghanis to join the terrorists. But somehow that just doesn't add up. The Taliban are certainly weaker now than before 2001. And there are only more terrorists in Iraq now if one doesn't count Saddam and his ilk as "terrorists".

The military occupation of Germany and Japan certainly didn't make those populations "more Nazi".

 

Reply #98 Top

Which proves my point that US Domestic production has very little effect the price of oil. What you will probably see if crude does get down to 90$/barrel is US production drop and the oil companies buying the difference from foreign suppliers.
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No, if you see crude going back to $30 a barrell, you would be correct.  However, at $90 companies see profit and that is the incentive they need (as dirty as the concept of profit is to liberals). INdeed, $90 may still be too high for OPEC as it does make some alternatives economically feasible. Oil Shale is one that is now viable due to the price of Oil, and the greatest deposits are in the US and Canada (of course forbidden to be exploited in the US due to congress).

Reply #99 Top

No, if you see crude going back to $30 a barrell, you would be correct.
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$30/barrel is what caused it in the 80's...This is 2008

Reply #100 Top

Even there were 600,000 deaths, (given that this fact is as reliable as the ones for Hussain's reign), there are still less than in Hussain's reign. In his reign, they were all Shi'ites who opposed the government, now they're random civilians who the terrorists use as shields, or who are randomly caught in a bombing.

 

People should remember many of the civilian deaths are from the same pirates and organised-criminals who had to be payed off during Hussain's reign. The country is less stable than it was under an iron fist, that's all. And unless Americans choose a deficit over ethics, stability won't be a problem for a while.