Why is our Empire being flamed in our own thread?

Erm, he's helping them lock down exploits for the metaverse, not the game in general. You are being an idiot. You are not helping the metaverse in any damn way, and he isn't cheating. Stop being so whiny that he's beating you.

Just so you know, there WAS a massive exploit which I noticed, and he has shown would be an effective and undetectable (to anyone who doesn't know how everything is scored off by heart) way of upping your score. If someone else had noticed that, they would be on top of the metaverse, and no-one would have noticed. He has since come up with 2 ways to stop this happening.

And you think he's trying to destroy it? You're doing a lot more damage to MV right now than evil haxx0rs who get stopped anyway.

heh looks like I inspired a revolution.

And the insult you posted as a example of his insults, is barely a insult at all.

Ok I will Bite, what the Hell is an Algorithm in game terms?

When I think of Algorithms I think of Forumlas, math equations to figure out a problem.

But what does this have to do with the game? Do you even no what it means, or are you just labling it a cheat, cause it is easy?

When I think of Algorithms I think of Forumlas, math equations to figure out a problem. But what does this have to do with the game? Do you even no what it means, or are you just labling it a cheat, cause it is easy?

That's exactly what it is. There are mathematical formulae the AI use. Stop them from using them efficiently by blocking their tactics, and they're completely helpless.

Hmmmm, if he figures out that stuff then I don't see what the Devs can do to stop it. Last I checked you can't have an AI without Those Algorithms to figure things out.

Maybe the guy is too smart for his own good, but I can't lable that cheating.

I can't label it as cheating either... I think we should applaud him for coming out and saying exactly what he's doing... if he hadn't said anything we would have never noticed.

Algorithms are not all that difficult to learn. Take a 3 month course and you will be able to do what he does. My point is he is beating the game by thinking like a computer and exploiting its weaknesses. I chose not to use algorithms as there is no fun in beating the game using those methods. He has obviously spent a lot of time analysing every move the AI makes and then restarts the game to a recent save to try a different scenario. This is repeated over and over again until patterns are recognized. In this way, he is able to calculate the AIs next move before it is made. It is a lot of painful analysis, but it is not difficult if you Know the procedure.

"Hmmmm, if he figures out that stuff then I don't see what the Devs can do to stop it. Last I checked you can't have an AI without Those Algorithms to figure things out.

Maybe the guy is too smart for his own good, but I can't lable that cheating."

Well, in a way you are right about the algorithms. The ai will have to use known algorithms to be reasonably efficient; however, theres not just one to use or one condition to follow. Debunking my methods is doable by the ai, and making the ai very much less exploitable is also doable. I hope to be able to provide information to do exactly that. The AI will never be perfect, and that's good. It's designed well as is, far better than any ai I have played against. If the dev team is willing to make the ai even less exploitable, I am certainly willing to help out.

But the devs can definitely do something about it .

I will give you credit unfunfofmpc you are slick. You have everyone, including the devs, eating out of the palm of your hand as you manipulate them. This is sad; very sad. Goodbye Metaverse, it has been a slice. The irony of the whole situation is that everyone who has objected to my statements rarely plays the metaverse. It seems there are very few metaverse veterans left. His experiment will assure they will never return. TBAY out.

I guess now would be a good time to bow out of the B.C. Space Orcas... I come to the site and there are two posts from the leader showing in "recent posts". Both are flaming. Please, it's just an online scoring system for a game.

EDIT: Now I completely understand Frogboy's post about considering a forum change... multi-thread arguments like this cloud what should be a fun place to gather and discuss a fun game.

couche please read the latest posts in our empire thread and you will see why I am upset. it has nothing to do wih the scoring system it is about an exploiter who has allredy upset 3 or 4 of our empires members by posting in our thread. This player is taking the fun out of the metaverse. TBAY

Has anyone tried blockading an uncolonized planet ? I've noticed the AIs tend to stay in colony rush mode until all reasonable planets are taken. Maybe that's what he's doing.

I do not see the problem. He is useing his smarts to beat the game. You do it, I do it, we all do it. He has just taken it to the extreme. I see nothing wrong. It is a game. It is meant to be beaten. And if his methods reveal issues with the AI then great now stardock can make it better. you are just jealous. You should be proud of him. I am. Good work Unfunfompc

gallagher118 I think you may be on to something there. I might have to try that.

Galactius, thanks. I have heard about the experiment being '30 days'. I dont remember saying that, but I don't believe it will take that long. I was sick today so I did not get to do a game, but I think it should only take 2~ weeks for the empire and less than a week for myself. Although I may have said this, I'll repeat it . I don't enjoy playing the game this way, to be honest. If you look at my first game that is an example of a game I like playing. I do indeed want to improve this game! .

Gallagher118, not even close .

unfunfofmpc!!, unfunfofmpc!!, he's our man, If he can't do it , no one can. All Hail the King. What,..... The King wears no clothes.

Personally I think the MV and forums will die because of all the flaming going on (on both sides)... and I think that after that all the kings horses and all the kings men, can't put the site back together again.

Enough with the king stuff . Both those stories were awful. DeadDodo, what "long line" characters did you mean in my post? The thread looks fine to me. I don't have yo scroll at all.

EDIT: NM I know what long line of characters you speak of. Sorry if that caused forum trouble, I didn't notice any.

well, since this game is not multiplayer exploitation of the ai weaknesses is kinda the point with something like meteverse. he whom manipulates the system best wins. that said, is he working the ai or the scoring system? there is always room for improvement in the ai, and i don't doubt that the scoring could be better as well. you suggest that SD is keeping a close eye on their games, correct? if he has found something unacceptably exploitable they will see this and try to fix it, right?

personally, i am not very concerned. the only reason i have bothered with the metaverse is because i came down with an unfortunate case of 'bling envy', lol. being competetive is not a concern, fun is. while i understand that some ppl find the competition fun, or even necessary to have fun, i don't. again, your not competing directly, just everyone competing against the same set of algorithms. those of you that get something out of being ranked, you have my sincere simpathies, but it is INEVETIBLE that someone will come along and work a game like this like a math problem.

well, hopefully this will all work out in the end. and as to flaming, what i saw just barely qualifies . good to see that it ended before it really got hot. one of the nicer things about this forum is the relative absence of that sort of thing.

Your post is an example of a decent one, P0rcup1ne. The devs will fix what they can in the time they are alloted. That's what they do before going on to new features to implement. This would include fixes to security issues, game exploits, ai issues, etc.

Anyone got some cheese to go with all the whine this post is making?

I just love getting up and reading forume topics like this, I mean so far its a one person crusade to get his way because someone broke his toys.

WHats that, the metaverse is broken, well big freakin deal. I think alot of people play the game to have fun not prove they have no life by posting multiple results into the metiverse. If you really want to bitch about things why not find out why we have to start a specific meterverse game just to post the results. I know if it was not for that one reason I could have posted a dozen games easy. I just forget that I have to start it as a metaverse game specific when I go to start new game.

Oh wait this is not really about the metaverse this is about someone who figured out how to beat the game at its own game, aka using the AI's way of working against it. Well thats part of the game.

The idea about blockading a planet so to keep other AI's in Colony grab mode works, and I found that out a month ago when I left 3 planets deep in my territory open because they were PQ4-5 planets. However I did not allow anyone to colonize them cause I did not want enemy planets in my territory.

Result of that game, I killed tons of Colony Ships as they just keep coming at me. That game did not get report because it was a normal sandbox game.

What is my one wish now, that the Devs put a stop to your bitch fest soon, cause I am getting sick of seeing it pop up over and over.

Brother Angelon

What is my one wish now, that the Devs put a stop to your bitch fest soon, cause I am getting sick of seeing it pop up over and over.

Amen to that.

<--- Lock? --->

The Federated Squirreldom of Dark Snathi demands all your acorns!

Version 1.0
Do A until B
Do B until C
<--------- player prevents C
Do B until C
Do B until C....


Version 1.1
Do A until B
Do B until C
<--------- player prevents C
Do B.2 until C
Do C until D

Seems like he is improving the game

But one last question ( or a first one for that matter )

Why are you logging experimental scores on a real empire.... if it was just 'to help the devs' wouldn't you keep your own score exploit free and run a dummy empire to isolate your experimental data?

TBAY,

I went and read your forum thread and it looks like you and your empire members who were the ones to start flaming.  So that would be my guess that's why you are getting flamed in your own thread. 

I highly resent your remark that he has us eating out of the palm of his hand.  I did ask unfunf to e-mail me his methods so that we can do something about the exploits, which he agreed to do.  An exploit is when someone takes advantage of a feature in a way that the developers did not anticipate or when someone takes advantage of a bug.  Either way, to do something about it, the developers have to know about the exploit.  It is far more efficient for me to nicely ask someone who has come up with an exploit than to try to reproduce it without any knowledge.