Destroy Planets!!!!

Terror Stars 4tw!1

BoogieBac [Stardock] wrote:

We tried to tie the AI in to use them, but it was just going to take too long to hook a good AI up to the game mechanic (they were put in to galciv1, but never hooked up to the AI, which made for some MAJOR cheese). When we re-implement them, there are 3 important aspects we need to get perfected.... 1.) AI needs to properly build them 2.) AI needs to properly defend theirs, and properly calculate the threat of others 3.) The Terror Star will still destroy entire systems. While the AI is going to be a pain to get working, that 3rd one is an even bigger monster. DO we let the terror star go right up to the star, blow up the star and planets, and still survive? Can the terror star attack a star from multiple tiles away? Should the Terror Star have to charge up it's attack before striking? Now that the planets are on the map, it makes the entire process more complicated. We still want to do it...but it's important that it's done right

Bleh...just blowing up a planet is soooooo 1977 We could always give you the choice...blowing up a planet only takes 2 turns to charge up, but a system takes 5 turns to charge (or, whatever balances best). Brad is the one that wants the system-wide blast, so you'll have to take it up with him (Frogboy on the forums). The AI targeting the threat isn't so bad, but defending the hell out of them is more my concern. And just manuveringing them throughout the galaxy may be a calculations pig on gigantic galaxies. Again, I'm not against it (we already have the cursor made for a tagreted planet/star), it's just a matter of working it into the time frame. We should have an list of ideas for the expansion packs posted in the next month. We'll just have to see if it makes it on there (I sure hope it does )

Not sure when/if they will make it in, but I still hope they do. I can't be bothered to capture most planets.

I heard it was coming in the add on... But I can't confirm that.

As HEEGZ says, it has been discussed. If you look through the UP resolutions you can even see one about Terror Stars...

If there was an option to allow/disallow them in the game, then I'm all for it. I enjoy playing the tech-underdog sometimes, but I'll be pi... I mean 'annoyed'... if entire systems get wiped out. If they get implemented they should have to sit next to their target for 10 turns or something before they can attack. This is Galactic Civilizations, not Galactic Cheesification.

If they were limited to a movement rate of one or something , that would give you plenty of time to see them coming and deal with them.

If it is slow, and takes some turns to destroy the planet, it would be nice. So to give the defender a chance to destroy it, and you must defend it with a fleet. It can bring some interesting changes to the way warfare plays...

Moreover, there should be massive penalties to relations and trade etc. from destroying whole planets. There should be some kind of psychological and moral "threshold", much like using nuclear weapons in real life. maybe you could have a risk of the planet's destruction affecting other planets and systems... that'd make you think twice.

In any case, the scope of the game feels diminished by leaving out the option... let's hope they add it sometime.

In my humble opinion, a Terror Star shouldn't be consumed when destroying planets, but be obliterated when it annihilates an entire star system (presumably forcing the star to go supernova). Why? Because given the (ideally) sluggish speed of the technological terror and the (once again, ideally) system-destroyer weapon's close range, it's impossible to escape the supernova alive.

What's more, this destructive force should not only destroy the star system, but also every ship and starbase within a certain radius, which would be the system's "territory". This way it'd be wise to order the escorts pull out as fast as possible when you're about to activate the doomsday weapon.

Me Likey.

Any chance that the stars destroyed would turn into black holes? Can't go within x parsecs of them without taking damage (structural integrity is being damaged by the vast tidal forces). Just an idea of course.

I hope you Stardock folks can get the AI going on that. It would be great that when I lose a game the last thing I see is this Drengin Terror Star next to my home system's star. Then it's all over...

I like the idea that all escort ships have to haul out before the weapon fires ... that gives the defenders a last minute chance to take out the weapon, which should have some minor defenses in it's own right - otherwise, it would be just a big waste for the attacker.

There should be some serious moral issues involved (in-game, not for the player who is slaughtering billions ). For instance, all Good and Neutral civs could have the potential to stop any wars between themselves to focus on this new and terrible threat .... evil civs could be convinced to join with your cause, but more than likely they would go with the side that has the likelyhood of winning.

That would mean that one would have to have a very powerful empire not only to build the Terror Star, but also to survive the aftermath.

Or, if you have the capability, you could just subvert all the races under your reign of terror.

Yeah, but at the same time it should scare the crap out of any AI opponents who see you use it. That is, just like in real life people bitch and whine about countries that use nukes, at the same time, the only people who stand up to such countries are other nuke-capable countries ( it's one of those great ironies that we're the only country that's ever used a nuke ). Everyone else may complain, but you'll notice that ultimately they toe the line.

Also, if you are not at war with a race that has planet destroying capability, and you have a democracy and try to start a war, the voters should take a massive penalty to going along with you, especially if the opponent country has planet-destroying capability and you don't.

i.e. in real life, the president will have an easier time convincing congress to pre-emptively strike Iran before they get nukes. Once they get nukes, short of a clear attack by Iran (G-d forbid), it will be nearly impossible to get congress to go along with a declaration of war. This isn't just because Iran has a better military than Iraq. There is something about the concept of nuclear war that people absolutely dread. The old soviet regime was staffed from top to bottom with some truly brutal and bloodthirsty animals, but even they stepped back from nuclear confrontation.

Similiarly, I would imagine that civilizations would dread going to war with others civs armed with planet-busters.

-ron

Why not just a carpet bomb sort of weapon. Like a dirty nuke or something like that?

I don't like it. I still think if it is powerful enough to destroy a planet much less an entire solar system, what is to stop it from taking out ships or entire fleets. If a massive weapon can be fired from a Terror Star at a planet it would also be possible to fire on ships, it's just a matter of hitting them. The Terror Star is clearly modeled after the Death Star in Star Wars. If anyone remembers the first Death Star destroyed an entire planet in episode 4, the second Death Star was set to destroy the entire rebel fleet before it was destroyed in episode 6.

Think about it. Yes there would be some resistance at first, but probably not alot because it would push your military rating way up. After you destroy a system or 2 races will either start surrendering to you or to the other AI's. You won't have to destroy more than a dozen systems (if that many) before you are declared winner of a conquest victory. What's the point? Where's the challenge in that? If you have the power to destroy planets and star systems you're practically a god and no one could mount an effective resistance.

The trick is in the balancing of the Terror Star. The unit itself should be armoured, but unable to return fire, vulnerable, and slow , necessitating an escort at all times. It'll be an easy target for anyone who can get a decent ship close. You'd need your entire fleet dedicated solely to defending it when everyone in the galaxy wants it stopped.

Giving it a charge time on its main weapon will also make it very vulnerable.

Furthermore, just to get a Terror Star, you need to work your way up a colossal tech tree, and build a space station with like a hundred modules. All that work, and it's a slow-ass sitting duck; which if used right, will win you the war, and if used wrong will be a fortune pissed away.

But yeah, destroying a whole system is a bit much. A five-week stationary charge time to destroy a single planet would be fair.

What I've read is that it'll just blow up planets. Heegz, when was that quote from?

Yeah, I miss the terror star from GCI, and yes, I agree, a game option to enable that ability would be fantastic!

Personally I think the Terror Star should be limited by its nature to evil civlisation. Sorry but if destroying an entire star system isn't evil, what is? It would be important of offergood and neutral civilisations something else to compensate, like a mobile starbase that could act as logisitical support for a fleet, perhaps even the ability to build worlds. There should also be a severe diplomatic penalty for using a terror star.

The issue of the Terror Star surviving is easy to solve. Remember the thing is equipped with a hyperdrive, no blast wave from the star could be travelling fastr than light speed. Even the radiation, which could still kill all the crew can't go faster than light. Just say that all ships, terror star included are moved a few spaces away from the blst, rperesenting them fleeing the explosion.

Prince, your argument makes no logic when you think about it. All beings represent themselves as good or neutral, because living in a culture admitting to be evil is somewhat of a paradox. To believe yourself evil due to your own values means you live through those values. Even if they are to get to the top through back-stabbing and treachery, you're living by the values of society and are therefore good under your own world.

However, good races are quite capable of committing heinous war-crimes on a regular basis. So terror stars should be for all or for no-one.

Instead of just blowing up planets and stars, there should be an 'Orbital Bombardment' option or module available It wouldwork like this: you just take a ship (presumably one with at least class 7 weapons, or a special module) then blast the planet from space with missles Instead of all that messy invasion, you just reduce it to slag. It would probably wipe out at least half the populatio and planetary buildings, and severly reduce the quality of the planet, but it would be good if you didn't have a Troop Transport yet or didn't want to go to all the work of invading it.

Perhaps there could be four Omega-Class ships; one could devastate the planet's surface, one could actually blow up the planet, one could induce a star to go nova, and a final one could create a black hole.

After researching all three of the weapons to the max (Doom Ray, Black Hole Gun, etc.) you could then start researching a final, panultimate class of weapons. The first tech would allow you to zap a planet's surface, killing off most of its inhabitants and automatically giving you an evil alignment when used (as would using any of the following devices).
The second would allow you to obliberate the planet (possibly giving a bonus to any Economic Starbase in the area with Production Modules). These two would only be usable if the planet was undefended, obviously. A new planetary improvement could counteract that (Planetary Shields, perhaps? )
The third would allow you to blow up a star and anything else within 5 parasecs of it (there would be a considerable wait time as the Star Terror destabilized the star's core, of course). This would include any ships in the area and possibly the planets (they would onlybe able to sustan .25 billion people, due to the lack of sunlight, but could be used for manufacturing).
The fourth and final device would allow you to collapse a ship, fleet, starbase, planet, or star into a black hole It would instantly destroy both object, but the black hole would remain for at least 30 turns (if a ship wandered near it and was sucked in, then the black hole would 'grow'; otherwise, it would disappear). Any ships, starbases, or planets nearby (2-3 parasecs) would get sucked in, with a reduction in speed for all ships in a larger radius (4-7 parasecs). Using this device would instantly drop you into an Evil Alignment and alienate all of your allies; all neutral players would be enticed into going to war against you, and all of your enemies would enter an allianceto fight against you). You might even be able to send a survey ship into the black hole to discover new universes or get incredible discoveries and bonuses.

No shadow, no orbital bombardment EVER. This has been stated clearly a large amount of times by the dev's, because it is the ultimate cheese.

I think they should bring terror stars back. I like nothing more than being the underdog, and building one of those as a last ditch attempt to turn the tides.

I like it. I really really like it. The construction, however, should be limited in its abilities. For one, I like the idea of it having defenses but no weapons. For another, I definitely believe a weapon of that magnitude should be REALLY slow, say, capable of moving only one or two squares per turn. As for what it can destroy, I like this idea of wiping out star systems...but I'm also a super-weapon freak

The weapon should be brought into the game.... yet have different levels of advancement.

Stage_1 Terror Star: has no defensive weapons and can destroy only planets takes 5 turns to fire

Stage_2 Terror Star: weak defensive weapons and can destroy only planets takes 4 turns to fire

Stage_3 Terror Star: moderate defensive weapons and can destroy only planets takes 3 turns to fire

Stage_4 Terror Star: moderate defensive and offensive weapons and can destroy only planets takes 3 turns to fire

Stage_5 Terror Star: moderate defensive and offensive weapons and can destroy planets or the sun and its system of planets takes 3 turns to fire


Gamers would then have to debate whether to begin building one immediately or wait and research for a more advanced model.