IP WARS---The Ultimate Mod

from GalCiv2 Forums
One of the strong points about community modding is that in exchange for doing work as a labor of love, and not for financial compensation, is the tremendous creative freedom you gain in return. Concepts that could never exist in the commercial world can be created and enjoyed by fans...helping to expand the paying fanbase of both the source game they were modded upon, and the Intellectual Properties they celebrate.


IN Gal Civ 2, we have a fantastic, successful game that we know will be supported by its creators. We know the game is highly mod-able, with great basic gameplay but also with highly accessible and interchangeable content. So why not take full advantage of our present situation to put together the game mod we know we all want, fans and developers alike, yet could never exist under any normal commercial circumstances.


I submit to you..."IP (Intellectual property) WARS, whereby the most beloved IP’s of the sci-fi Space Opera genre compete for Strategic Galactic Domination. We know we’ve always wanted to see what would happen if the Enterprise 1701-D mixed it up with an Imperial Destroyer. We have the unique opportunity here to make that happen.



I propose a mod in which we replace the unique GalCiv 2 races with both the main Protagonist and Antagonist from the major applicable space opera IP’s: The Republic and Empire from Star Wars. The Federation and Borg (I could say Romulan, but we know we want the Borg) from TNG era Star Trek. The Earth Alliance and the (Shadows? I’m sorry, I’m not up on my Babylon 5) from Babylon 5. The alt-Earth of Stargate command and the Goa'uld(with their Egyptian Mythology-themed ships) from Stargate. The Space marine Government vs. The Covenant from Halo. The United Colonies vs. The Cylons from Battlestar Galactica. And the Peacekeeper Alliance and Scarran Empire from Farscape.


That’s already a pretty large and ambitious list...you have to draw the line somewhere. There are certainly any number of IP’s you might want to see included, but some would be difficult to represent in game terms. For instance, the Xenos from the Alien Franchise don’t really have any signature technological structure. Dune and Starship Troopers are both more associated with Ground Campaigns. And I love Firefly as much as anyone, but it never really had the chance to develop signature protagonist/antagonist technology or Universal backdrop...there’s just nothing there to hang your hat on. (I expect to be arguing that one quite a bit )


Each faction would start with their determined strengths/abilities, starting techs and AI tendencies as normal. In addition, each faction would have access to some techs unique to them on the Tech Tree. For instance, the Republic would be able to research "Force manipulation" (Huge bonuses to "Luck") which would allow the building of "Jedi training Academy" super project (Huge Soldiering Bonus). The Federation could research "Replicator" technology (unlocking life support components with almost unlimited ship range), and have access to slightly superior shield technology. The Peacekeeper and Scarran Technological victory tree would be one tier shorter than the others, with the final tier being "Wormhole Weapons" (Weapons that essentially destroy entire sectors and their contents at once).


These techs could only be researched by their respective Factions , but could be traded , captured or stolen. You can argue that one, but I think with this sort of hi concept cross-over, you have to allow for the existence of Cylon Jedi


Each Faction would be able to unlock some of the signature ships of their IP as they research the appropriate techs, but in keeping with one of the great joys of Galciv 2, I think there need to be IP-specific "ship kit" component packages put together so that players can make their own ships that look like they fit into the technological theme of their faction. For instance, the Star Trek federation ship kit would contain many different federation style saucers and nacelles…the Borg get "techy" looking basic geometric shapes, etc..,)


Ideally, I would hope we manage to pull together some of the people that were looking to create some IP specific conversions, and break them into content teams like "Team Stargate", etc, coordinated under a main "administrative" team (some people much smarter than me ) responsible for incorporation/tweaks/balance and whatever alterations the Faction-specific Techs would require. This would in turn help people go on to do their own expanded IP-specific conversions, possibly benefiting from a standardized resource pool for all mods of this sort.


I’m sure you’ll agree, as far as pipe dreams go, this is a grand one, and deserves to see the light of day if anything does. If you’re interested, and have relevant skills or resources you think could be applied, post here, message me, or come drop by the Galciv IRC chat in #Galciv on irc.stardock.com …or through the "Chat" section of your Stardock client.


I’m a quasi-professional 2d/3d artist with a broad range of applicable skills and tools to bring to the table, but as I said, this is just a pipe dream without a lot of other people with a varied skill and experience set that believe the concept demands to exist. I’m not looking for it to be "my" project…quite the opposite. I just believe the concept cries out to see the light of day, I believe the opportunity is here with Galciv 2, and I just want to play a part in bringing it to life.
32,527 views 30 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Sorry for the double post...the forums are a bit wonky for me :/ . And where are my medals?
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
And the Culture from Iain M Banks. Ok, they'd wipe the floor with everyone else, but it would be interesting.
Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top


Well, thats kind of covered with the Halo IP, isnt it? Many people say that the Halo IP borrowed liberally from Iain Banks culture Novels.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It's still not quite the same though is it?

I mean the Culture are probably more powerful than all the other sci-fi civs put together. The Halo war just isn't the same as a Culture war.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
+1 you have my vote.... each IP specific faction has it's own: ship style, tech tree, planet development, alignment, government, etc... etc......

I know that the makers of the game will support "us" in this project.....


Even though I wouldn't know how to balance the game, or code, I wouldlove to "beta" test the hell out of it.....


Oh yea.... I am so waiting for this.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well, fans of the respective IPs can argu all day that some Factions would be inherently more powerful than the others. The job of game makers and modders is to make sure that each is a relatively balanced, and playable option overall.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well, fans of the respective IPs can argu all day that some Factions would be inherently more powerful than the others. The job of game makers and modders is to make sure that each is a relatively balanced, and playable option overall.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
BTW, Im already being assailed by B5 fans telling em it should be "Vorlons" and not "Shadows". Like I said, Im not up on my B5 mythology...but I know there are a lot of fans of the series...this could certainly be decided.
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
what will be interesting is the weapons aspect...
give galactica universe lots of mass drivers and rocket technology but only VERY limited access to shields

stargate could be a mixture.... earth still uses rockets and mass drivers (rail guns) but already got a few decent shields from their allies....

well the rest are just plain beam weapons? dunno....

but looooot's of potential there... like that idea!
for babylon 5 I would suggest humans vs minbari


so what about models? do we just steal all the models together?
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yeah, let's pit the Culture against 'killed by being near 2MT nukes' B5 and the 'armed with 20mm cannons' nBSG.

Starting everyone at scratch means many of these cultures can't exist - the Republic is 25,000 years old and the Culture is almost defined by it's absurd level of technology. Aren't you basically just proposing a mod that uses iconic graphics and starship design with a few extra techs? Is it *really* the Culture when you don't have Minds running around? Why would the Republic have a monopoly on Force users when the Force is everywhere? How can the Republic and the Empire exist at the same time, when they are the same organisation with a different name? There are all kinds of problems with the premise, not least that there are well-defined power levels for these civs.

Perhaps you should start with less-ambitious scenarios, where each group can be started in a 'realistic' position? The Culture is basically worthless in a game like this - being far too powerful - but reenacting the Clone Wars, the Shadow Wars, and the Fall of Reach has merit. The game can't get too assymetrical or it's not going to be any fun... who would want to play a 'run away from the Cylons' game? Who would want to attempt to destroy a Star Destroyer with a Federation starship? Once it gets stacked to far one way - which unfortunately is pretty much guaranteed - it becomes not fun anymore.
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Its a high concept mod. Would any of these intellectual entities exist in the same time space period as the others, if one were to speculate on such nonsensical matters? No. Its the novelty of the "What if" factor.

And the "Culture" is not in, so we neededt worry about that.
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
And yes dersleeper, you can entertain yourself quite thouroughly thinking about how youd represent the capabilities of signature ships in game terms. Like what would an xwing fighter be? A tiny hulled craft with plasma weapons, and also a missle attack, and minor shield defense? In order to fit all that stuff on a tiny hull, it would actually require a decent degree of tech, so maybe the xwing wouldbr availible till later.

There are all sorts of possibilities its fun to think about. Maybe when the Borg take over a world, the texture map on the planets is replaced by a green, viral "technological" map, the way that Borg planets look like from space.


Like I said, its a concept that pretty much HAS to be realized, I think.
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
In the case of the Republic and Empire, it could be argued they use the same ships, the same tech, and for a time were ruled by the same man. Worth including twice?

I am still of the opinion that the various mod efforts should first concentrate on scenario play. This means we'll actually get something playable a lot sooner, and is really the best way to do it in any form deeper than 'we added some new ship models'. Not that that would be bad, just ... odd.
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
In the case of the Republic and Empire, it could be argued they use the same ships, the same tech, and for a time were ruled by the same man. Worth including twice?

I am still of the opinion that the various mod efforts should first concentrate on scenario play. This means we'll actually get something playable a lot sooner, and is really the best way to do it in any form deeper than 'we added some new ship models'. Not that that would be bad, just ... odd.
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
And yes dersleeper, you can entertain yourself quite thouroughly thinking about how youd represent the capabilities of signature ships in game terms. Like what would an xwing fighter be? A tiny hulled craft with plasma weapons, and also a missle attack, and minor shield defense? In order to fit all that stuff on a tiny hull, it would actually require a decent degree of tech, so maybe the xwing wouldbr availible till later.

There are all sorts of possibilities its fun to think about. Maybe when the Borg take over a world, the texture map on the planets is replaced by a green, viral "technological" map, the way that Borg planets look like from space.


Like I said, its a concept that pretty much HAS to be realized, I think.
Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Bah, forum timeouts make me look bad. Better add some content.

How will you address the scale issue? The Federation, for instance, considers 600m ships 'large', whereas even Halo would consider that an extremely small vessel. If you use 'tiny' hulls for fighters, what will you use for Executors and Death Stars? Off the top of my head, B5 is probably the only franchise that uses every hull size from tiny up. What about issues like the Borgs' proverbial stupidity or the extremely slow B5 ships? Will you add needed tech to the tree or build an entirely new one? This really is an absurdly ambitious project.
Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
In the case of the Republic and Empire, it could be argued they use the same ships, the same tech, and for a time were ruled by the same man. Worth including twice?

I am still of the opinion that the various mod efforts should first concentrate on scenario play. This means we'll actually get something playable a lot sooner, and is really the best way to do it in any form deeper than 'we added some new ship models'. Not that that would be bad, just ... odd.



In regards to SW, Im of course thinking of original SW/Empire time period...the time period that most people associate with SW. During this time the Empire has identifiably "angular" and industrial looking Capital ships, as opposed to the more Organic looking Correllian and Mon Cal Republic cruisers.

Its an impossible, high Fantasy concept...over thinking it too much would ruin it.

In regards to what you think Mods should be, you certainly have the right to pursue that yourself.
Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Space is not a two dimensional plane with finite barriers the way it is in the game. Its very much the opposite of that concept in terms of "realism".

The point is is that wildly complex concepts are streamlined and over-simplified for fun and economic gameplay. A Borg Cube is that races "large or huge" class ship. An Imperial Crusier is that factions "large or huge" class ship. Even if the actual dimension of thoseships within the context of their respective "universes" varies wildly..>I see no problem whatsoever with putting them into the same category in the game, because they both serve the same "concept".

I think the current tech tree, with some Faction specific tech additions would serve as a decent "ballpark" to represent many of the concepts native to the identity of the said IPs.

All "cross-over" games/movie/comics have inherent logic gaps that are overlooked for the sake of entertainment.

When the Japanese and American Ip holders teamed up to make the "King Kong vs Godzilla" movie, they had any number of logistical barriers to that concept, if one is silly enough to be that nitpuicky over details in what is already an inherently absurd concept. Namely , Kong is around 50 feet tall...Godzilla is around 400 ft. But both creatures had the same identity of "city -threatening monsters". So do you not make the movie, or do you take liberites with the minutaus for the sake of concept and entertainment?


In any event, Im sure the concept will not appeal to all people (though I cant see how it possibly couldnt In my opinion , I think this would be wonderfully entertaining mod, and I am enthusiastic about contributing to its existence.
Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You're clearly talking about the New Republic then. Being entirely EU, that's even *worse*.

I'm having trouble understanding how you intend on making an internally-consistent mod with such startling complexity and ambition when you feel thinking about it is impossible. Will you even allow the use of the ship designer, since you intend using iconic designs from various franchises? If you don't, does it bother you that the game will essentially become like GC1, where you 'unlock' designs with tech? Since GC2 has a paper-scissors-stone approach to combat, how will you resolve difficulties stemming from the nature of these iconic vessels - for example, SW vessels are both heavily armoured and shielded, whereas B5 entirely lacks shielding and relies of point-defence and armour. Given the GC combat system, even 'balanced' versions of these ships (ignoring the mindblowing power disparity between them) would have trouble having a 'fair' fight, since the B5 ships are basically defenceless against 80% of a SW ships' weapons while the beam weapons of B5 would encounter effective shielding.
Reply #20 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm having trouble understanding how you intend on making an internally-consistent mod with such startling complexity and ambition when you feel thinking about it is impossible. Will you even allow the use of the ship designer, since you intend using iconic designs from various franchises?


You are free to have as much trouble understanding it as youd like. You are also free to make any number of fan created mods that better serve your vision of what they "should" be. But why are you wasting your time here? Its clear you dont like the idea. All I can tell you is "get over it", and move on .

In regards to the ship designer, that question is answered in the original post.
Reply #21 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm having trouble understanding how you intend on making an internally-consistent mod with such startling complexity and ambition when you feel thinking about it is impossible. Will you even allow the use of the ship designer, since you intend using iconic designs from various franchises?


You are free to have as much trouble understanding it as youd like. You are also free to make any number of fan created mods that better serve your vision of what they "should" be. But why are you wasting your time here? Its clear you dont like the idea. All I can tell you is "get over it", and move on .

In regards to the ship designer, that question is answered in the original post.
Reply #22 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You are free to have as much trouble understanding it as youd like. You are also free to make any number of fan created mods that better serve your vision of what they "should" be. But why are you wasting your time here? Its clear you dont like the idea. All I can tell you is "get over it", and move on .

In regards to the ship designer, that question is answered in the original post.


Just a tip: you might want to learn to take criticism a little better. You've got an extremely ambitious (and in my honest opinion, completely overly ambitious to the point of being nigh-impossible) project, and people WILL give their feedback on it. Not everyone will play the role of mindless synchophants either my friend, you will be criticized. It lies on you to be able to take that criticism in stride--your comments so far hurt whatever credibility you might have had with the community.

Also, keep in mind, that the community will decide whether your mod is worthy or not. I could make a mod entitled "Pink Fuzzy Bunnies of OMGHAXORDOOM!" consisting of cute fuzzy bunnies piloting obscenely large pink ships of doom, and might consider it the best mod ever. I doubt many others would, and again, listening to others' feedback would have told me that instead of blindly ignoring them or blowing them off.


In short: be nice, listen to others' opinions, especially since they (the community) will ultimately determine whether your mod is noteworthy.

Reply #23 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Sounds exactly like the majority of the mods available for Freelancer.

Personally, I like unscripted. Copying may be the sincerest form of flattery, but I would much rather create my own way.
Reply #24 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
While we don't need to go into specifics of certain Sci fi properties. (like trying to have 'The Empire' itself)

Why not just take the concepts.

One thing I'm dying for is large capital carrier ships, which house hundreds of one seater fighters.
Reply #25 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
While we don't need to go into specifics of certain Sci fi properties. (like trying to have 'The Empire' itself)

Why not just take the concepts.

One thing I'm dying for is large capital carrier ships, which house hundreds of one seater fighters.