What i really HATE about galciv2

There are no territorial borders in the game.
You are reffering to the cultural border, which show just the places where your cultural influence is bigger than factor 1.

yes, i actually refer to the cultural borders - but these could work as "real" borders as well.
if not, implement political borders. the argument remains the same ...

If they worked the way you suggest, then influence starbases would become ridiculously powerful

tone their bonus down or, as suggested as an alternative, introduce political borders, which are not congruent with cultural borders

I think it is more exciting the way they have it at the moment. Other races can install their starbases in what you name your territory, because they don`t name it your territory . So, if you want them to accept your territory that means...yes...you have to declare war and destroy it and hope they`ll learn from it. So it is on you to establish "your" territory in the universe. The only thing that would be really great is to be able to have the option by solving this "crisis" comming up at the moment where a different race builds a starbase you don`t like using the diplomacy screen. At the moment you can`t really talk to them about this. Normaly, if you are strong enough, you should be able to say : ok, guys, nice try, now get your starbase and go home to momie or get the butt kicked....to be able to avoid war.

Space is both empty and useless. Making cultural borders like the Berlin Wall would be like allowing the US to bar anyone from entering the eastern Pacific ocean. Nobody 'owns' space, and nobody would want to since it's worthless.

That said, there is no diplomatic option that allows you to demand someone stop dropping influence starbases in your space. The AI can call you up just to say how cranky it is about something (fleets lurking, etc) but the player can't, and that's stupid. I'm not sure the AI realises that military bases near your colonies is a hostile act - it certainly gets annoyed when you build influence starbases near it's planets, which is a clear double standard. The diplomacy system needs to allow you to settle disputes like this, rather than the current system of yelling at the computer then going to war.

Iam bit of crossroads with this guestion.

I like the extra action that the cultural borders bring. Example I had weak military and the other races started to pop bases on my cultural zone. I got pissed naturally and was thinking "you bastards get away from my territory". Then again if this was not to happen , Iam sure they would have mustered a gigantic fleet and wipe me out.

There is actually a Galactic Proposal about this very thing, something like "no starbases on foreing cultural zone". Now if only we could have a "galactic leader" and choice to implement what ever bill this would be great. Now it just pops up randomly.

I've put this on the suggestion list: all the UP policies should be implementable piecemeal by trade. Waiting for the random UP to bring it up is worthless, but being able to send a 'you'll be paying for those bases or you're toast' message would be useful. This sort of this would be great for sharing your starbase bonuses with allies and even paying tax for your own bases inside an allies zone, just to stop them getting cranky about it.

I'm not sure the AI realises that military bases near your colonies is a hostile act - it certainly gets annoyed when you build influence starbases near it's planets, which is a clear double standard

No, its not. The AI is culturally attacking you, it knows exactly what it's doing. The AI tries to see to what extent you could be pushed around, especially if your military is alot weaker than his.

Have to agree with the general sentiment here: Borders as we understand them (and as used in civ4) make less sense, at least conceptually, in the vastness of space. At the same time, it is a bit daft that another race could plop a starbase right by my capital and I can't express any warning to them except through declaring war.

As a member of the UP and friendly with most other nations, its hard to get too upset by cultural starbases when you consider what they are. They are shopping malls and embassies and such, which are not really a bad thing. Obviously they have a cultural effect and yes, other civs don't like them, with their horrible racist attitudes, but they are signed up to the UP and have to lump it. Unless they declare war of course.... I do agree it would be nice to have a list of proposals that could be put forward for consideration - great idea.

again: i mean an option. if you dont like it, dont use it.

but, to quote another user:

I mean seriously how would you think humanity would react if suddenly an alien race would pop up and just set a Starbase right in earths orbit? I mean thats what you call a casus belli. Another example would be a Russian Fleet sitting one mile out of New York

that is exactly what i am talking about!

by the way: the concept of cultural influence/borders is different from political influence/borders. to use cultural borders as political borders is just a simplification in order not to be forced to chance to much of the game.
but non-congruent political borders are of course better and more realistic.

but there is another idea i like:

But there is another option similar to what you say, which I would actually like to see, is "Threats". That is to say, you can threaten the other races if they do something. A diplimacy option for "Keep starbases from being planted near my planet, or I will attack!". Also, Keep ships out of my influent, don't attack X race, don't research Y. Basically threaten military action on a variety of different things. Because realistically you couldn't stop them if you wanted to (other than blowing them up), but you could let them know what actions you would and wouldn't take lightly. They then have a decision to keep the peace or go against your request (of course some won't like the threat and attack you for making it, which makes sense to).

I would really like to hear Stardock comment on those suggestions...

Yes, like many problems this situation stems from the fact what we call the 'diplomatic' system is actually intended solely for trade. There is no way of simply sending 'messages' to the AI, whether 'I hate those guys', or 'drop another starbase near my systems and it's on', or 'attack this world', or 'I'm researching this, get this other tech and we'll trade' or any of a thousand other statements, policies or offers. I'd like to see contracts between civilisations and such, but it'd require a pretty major overhaul of the way things are treated currently. There isn't even a way to phrase questions as 'requests' (can be refused without insult) or 'demands' (backed by military strength). The AI just decides what it thinks you meant independently.

"There are no territorial borders in the game"

This is simply not true. I know it's the Stardock line too, but their own text says otherwise. Five UP proposals talk about ownership of sectors:

• "...a tax on starbases residing in sectors not controlled by their empire...when occupying another race's territory"
• "starbase overcrowding in foreign sectors"
• "In fairness to sector owners..."
• "Colonies located in a sector not their own..."
• "...abnormalities that lie within either their own territory..."

The tool tips says "Show Sector Ownership".

If you own a sector based on the displayed boundaries, then how are they not territorial borders?

I also want to point out why I believe the other nations comment on starbases and other matter of grievance for them. I think its simply because its trying to create a personal feel, as if they were another human player, who probably would give you some real feedback. Even if they are unhappy with your tactics you are 'working within the rules' of this game. And thats the same for them.

I do think the United Planets is the area where the game is a litle weak, but things like that take a long time to develop. It's a place where all grievances with other nations can be solved (or not). I think being able to suggest proposals would be better than random ones. I think the ability to further decide your ethics (good or evil) by actually adhering to winning proposals woud be good. This would then lead to encouraging espionage to see if nations are breaking treaties. This could get rather complex, with counter espionage tactics coming into play with internal security. But it would be cool to propose sanctions for an all powerful evil race (or good) for example, due to evidence of their misdeeds or deeds that other nations simply don't like and vote against.

Plenty of room for new things in number 3 eh.

@Hykin:
Sounds somewhat misleading

But the manual states also at page 16:

"A colored line on the mao represents that civilizantions's influence.
Influence is not the same as the borders of one's civilization.
In GCII borders go only as far as one planet."

Isn't it obvious, the cultural warfare is meant to be this way. If someone starts building bases in your territory, you have 2 options: declare war or fight back with your own culture bases. If your military is stronger and you don't feel like building your own culture bases, simply declare war. There's not supposed to be some easy way out for you like telling the ai to stop. Why should it care what you think? If it decided to start a culture war on you it alredy made up its mind.

Who would ever allow a foreign, potential hostile nation to install/establish a (potential military) colony in its own territory?

What choice do you have? Space is big, real big. This is the exact same situation that the European powers had in the Ages of Colonialism and Imperialism. Powers claimed large parts of the world, yet other powers founded colonies in the Americas and elsewhere that were clearly in other powers areas of influence. The powers of the era were not able to enforce their "borders" as the ocean is big and sailing ships can only go so fast and you can only put so many troops in them.

@Hykin: Sounds somewhat misleading But the manual states also at page 16: "A colored line on the map represents that civilizantions's influence. Influence is not the same as the borders of one's civilization. In GCII borders go only as far as one planet."

What this means in my opinion is simply that, like as said by someone previously, areas of space are all neutral and can come under your influence but are not owned by anyone. Simply, your space is space in orbit of a planet and any ships in orbit around any planets you own are in your space. Being next to one of your planets is not the same as being in orbit around your planet... space is big. Therefore a ship is not crossing a border until it enters a planets orbit... usually this is an act of war. The designers have created the world this way and thats how we have to live with it for now I guess.

I'm sorry, but these cultural/political/territory borders (whatever you want to call them) are implemented CORRECTLY in GALVCIV2.

I believe we have all just become accustomed to Civilization-style border behaviour.

Here on earth, there is NOTHING stopping Canada from moving our troops into the U.S. and setting up a military base etc.. EXCEPT the fact that the US "might attack", "might use diplomacy, the UN etc.."

The US has declared cocaine illegal within their borders, but that doesn't stop drug smugglers from bringing it into the country!! It's up to the US to patrol their borders to detect and prevent it.

And the earth is just a couple million square miles........ space is ............ well...........INFINITE........

Civilization just automates the process of declaring WAR as soon as someone enters your territory (without Open Borders)....it still doesn't prevent you.

But there does need to be MORE diplomatic activities (e.g. war declaration, open borders etc..) around cultural/political/territory border incursions IF DETECTED.

-- just my two cents

1. Colonize all planets in what you think of as your own territory. This will prevent others from colonizing. If they get there first, too bad, it's not your territory any more.

2. If someone builds military starbases in/near your space, he is obviously setting up a war against you. He actually wants war with you so he won't care if you whine about his starbases. You can either declare war now and try to take them out while their preparing, or try to do some preparations yourself for the inevitable.

3. If someone is building culture bases in your space, he is after your planets. You might argue "but i have a bigger military he should stay the hell out". Well, you just have to back that up then and declare war. Maybe the ai is counting on you being tied up, in other wars, for example. Either declare war, build your own starbases, or try to get another race to war with them.

As stated by others, cultural border=/=political border.
On earth we have this thing called international waters, i'm sure such concept would apply to space too.
"what do you mean our freighters can't go over cause it's your territory, your nearest colony is 200 lightyears away!"


With that said, it would be nice to have some kind of politicla border, but i'd imagine the border would only be a few parasec away from your colonized planet. Perhaps something like 3 parasec raidus of your planet (not your starbase.)

The tool tips says "Show Sector Ownership". If you own a sector based on the displayed boundaries, then how are they not territorial borders?

a Lot of the UP resolutions are relic from GC1. If you look in the xml, you can find a resolution about terror stars (won't see it in game though).

Hmmm interesting idea. I like the idea of having political borders but I'd tweak your idea to work better.

This is how I would modify it:

1. You'd lower the influence effect of influence star bases.

2. There would be no enforced border. Anyone could cross over it, but crossing into another empires territory that you were not allied with would reduce relations.

3. Staying in their zone for too long would lead to their declaring war or threatening you with war if you don't get out. Then you could have stealth come into play. You would have to design more stealthy ships or more powerful sensors so you could see without getting into trouble with that empire. This would add an interesting element to the game. This would open up spying to more uses as well.

The OP is thinking too much like a Huuumahn and not about futuristic galaxy policy. Space cannot be owned it must be taken and held by power of the strongest, no longer will huuumahn's rule with their corruptive political mumbo jumbo. The Empire shall strike back and the Huuumahns will conform to the policy of the Galactic Empire. Show us your power, quit whinning about your political desires. The Huuumahns show their weaknesses, they don't have the "intelligence" to take what they want physically, so, they attempt to thwart their inevitable end by crying for political protection, a mere delaying action a cry for salvation since there will be no more "Independence" days for them.