Bug / Balance problems with all Tourist improvements...

from GalCiv3 Forums

I've been poking around the XML for the various Tourist improvements (up through Retribution 4.0), and they seem to have some major inconsistency problems.

 

It's apparent in pretty much all of the Tourism improvements:  Import/Export Center, Port of Call, Tourist Haven. plus all the various tourist Galactic wonders (Paxton's Emporium), etc. 

The one-per-player improves all do +1% per level to ColonyGrossIncome, just for that planet.  That's ludicrously bad.  Especially since the primary bonus on the building is flat +1% to Tourism (not per level, just the building bonus). 

Looking at the various Galactic Wonders, they have either a +3% or +5%/level bonus to Gross income.

Also, I just noticed that most of these (both Player and Galactic) have the base ability set as a FLAT bonus type to Tourism. Which is absolutely wrong (adding 0.01 to tourism is a bad, bad joke). It should be MULTIPLIER.

 

However, looking at the XML, it appears that there are some major inconsistencies as to what they are supposed to be accomplishing. Again, given how they are described, and comparing them to other buildings and their configurations, there needs to be a MAJOR readjustment to them, to bring them back into both utility, and make them consistent.

 

First off, there are several decisions that have to be made, regarding Tourism improvements:

  1. Do Galactic Wonders provide a Tourism boost *just* to that planet, or to ALL planets?
  2. The same for Player Wonders.
  3. Should they level up and provide a Tourism boost, or a Wealth Boost? 
  4. Should these level adjustments be planet-specific, or empire-wide?
  5. Tourism adjustments are obviously percentage bonuses. What should Wealth bonuses be? Flat or Percentages?

 

Given how other things work, I think I'd suggest the following:

  • For Galactic Wonders:
    1. The base Tourism modifier is a GLOBAL one. It remains a %. I'd suggest the lowest one (Paxton's) be set to +0%, because it really is there to enable tourism before the Tech is researched.  For the rest, it should be and increasing larger one for the more powerful wonders (e.g. +3% and +5% for the Boyer's World and Restaurant of Eternity)
    2. The Level Modifier be Colony-specific.  I'd suggest it be BOTH Tourism and ColonyNetIncome. I'd suggest +5% for the first, and a flat +1 for the latter.
  • For Player Wonders:
    1. The base Tourism modifier is a Colony-specific one.  It should be pretty high, I'd suggest +10% at least.
    2. The level modifier be Colony-specific.  I'd probably not give it a Tourist bump, but again, I'd suggest a flat +1 to ColonyNetIncome per level.

By using ColonyNetIncome, the Tourist improvements don't benefit from all those Wealth modifiers, which seems appropriate and balanced.  They already give an adjacency bonus there.

 

I've attached an XML snippet (to go into ImprovementDefs.xml) that provides all the fixes.

 

24,382 views 6 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Can't get the forum code to accept an XML snippet. So here it is, in Google Drive:

TourismFixes.xml

Reply #2 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Tourism * Total area of Influence = Tourism Bonus (x2 if all influence is conected to capital). Planet Only. An it can get to be a huge bonus, OP bonus if done right. Nothing needs fixing. If they were all Multipliers your tourism income would be 0 forever. 50% of 0 is still 0, you need the Flat bonus.

Toursim does not require to be enabled anymore (that is a UI bug on the tech tree).

I beleive there may be 1 or 2 Galactic Wonders that give a faction wide bonus to Tourism there is also a Government that does a faction wide bonus.

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Reply #3 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

But that makes no sense.

I presume that the Tourism value is originally set to something like 0.01 - that is, you get 1% of your total influence area in tourism income. It can't be much higher than that, given what I'm seeing for values in the game.

If the value in the improvement is a Flat value of 0.01 (which is what it originally way), then that's a 100% bonus (0.01 + 0.01), since you've doubled what the original Tourism value was.  Which is why a MULTIPLIER of say 5% would be better. (0.01 * 1.05) = 0.0105.  The way it currently works, the current values are severely OP.

(and my 0 for Paxton's isn't actually a multiplier of 0. Look at the XML - it's just that Paxton's doesn't have a Tourism adjustment, so you stick with the normal value).

And are you sure it doesn't need to be enabled by getting the Tourism tech? I don't remember that it shows up UNTIL that tech is researched (or you get the Paxton's Emporium wonder completed earlier).   There absolutely has to be some trigger for tourism to start, because it 100% isn't there for at least the first several dozen turns.

The only current Galactic Wonder that gives a global bonus is the very last one, the Restaurant of Eternity. 

 

A current game example:  I haven't researched Tourism yet, but I've built both Paxton's Emporium and the Import/Export Center on my homeworld.   I'm getting well over 15 credits/turn just in tourism on that homeworld, and the influence ring isn't very big (it's about turn 40 or so, so we're talking about an influence of maybe 10 hexes in radius, at most).

 

Meanwhile, the Gross Income modifiers are ludicrously underpowered. I've got a ton of adjacency on those two, and the sum total of the Gross Income modifer for both is... +8%.   or, less than half of one basic Market Center. Really, why bother?

Look at the XML, and diff it against the Retribution file to see the changes.

 

 

---- 

In fact, I just looked at the MasterTechDefs.xml file.  Two things stick out:

 

The tech called MasterInterstellarTourism has this stat:

"CanTourism", with an EffectType of "faction", and a Flat bonus of 1.   That looks explicitly like toggling a boolean value from 0 (false) to 1 (true).  Which leads me directly to believing that tourism is NOT in any way enabled until that tech is researched.

 

Also, look a the tech called MasterKrynnConversionTech

It has a the following:   a Tourism modified, GLOBAL in scope, targeting all Colonies, with a MULTIPLIER of 0.25.  That is, a +25% bonus to Tourism for the Krynn.

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm suggesting we do with the Improvements.

Reply #4 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting trims2u, reply 3

I presume that the Tourism value is originally set to something like 0.01

0.00, you have to either have the Trait, build an Improvement or have a Government with Tourism that has a Flat Bonus to set Tourism off.

Quoting trims2u, reply 3

And are you sure it doesn't need to be enabled by getting the Tourism tech?

You answered this yourself:-

Quoting trims2u, reply 3

I haven't researched Tourism yet, but I've built both Paxton's Emporium and the Import/Export Center on my homeworld. I'm getting well over 15 credits/turn just in tourism on that homeworld

Quoting trims2u, reply 3

"CanTourism", with an EffectType of "faction", and a Flat bonus of 1. That looks explicitly like toggling a boolean value from 0 (false) to 1 (true). Which leads me directly to believing that tourism is NOT in any way enabled until that tech is researched.

UI Bug or left over. If Tourism was not enabled at game start you would not be able to get your 15cr a turn on your homeworld without the tech you have not yet researched.

I beleive all Tourism Improvements are 1 per player or 1 per galaxy which makes them limited. I am not saying there is not a easier or better way to balance it, this is the way SD has balanced it.

Reply #5 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Tourism is FAR improved from when it was first adjusted for influence hexes (originally it was just arcane, and made no sense).  You had the ability to build the Port of Call on every planet.  Very very OP.  I still find it to be pretty powerful, if played correctly, but nowhere near how it used to be.

However, I will agree with you on the 1% GrossIncome bonus.  I don't care about it at all.  Later buildings which give 3-5% are useful, but I'd love some sort of different adjacency bonus for the 1% buildings.  Maybe a 5% tourism bonus (not 5% total potential tourism, but similar to Aquatic 25% bonus - applied after tourism from influence).

I do think it would be nice if they didn't call both the influence-based tourism, and the post-calc bonus, the same thing.  What does 5% tourism really mean, out of context?  Either or.