Age of Expansion tech log and honest opinion.

;-)

I've played for a while and before I get to much to far ahead I'll fill ya all in, and whatever else I've gathered in 108 turns about ¾ through the first age:

Turn 1: Xeno commerce.

Turn 2: artifact +25% Xeno commerce.

Turn 5: artifact completes Xeno commerce.

Turn 5: planetary improvement.

Turn 9: another artifact +25% planetary improvement.

Turn 11: planetary improvement completed.

Turn 11: Accelerated growth.

Turn 22: Accelerated growth completed.

Turn 22: Xeno industrialization.

Turn 29. Xeno industrialization completed.

Turn 29. Wealthy population.

Turn 37: Artifact +25% Wealthy population.

Turn 46: wealthy population completed after...some problems which I will elaborant on later.

Turn 46: weapons systems. (made destroying all 5 iridium shipyards from all five planets easy ;) )

Turn 51: weapons systems completed.

Turn 51: Xeno economics.

Turn 51: artifact +25% Xeno economics.

Turn 61: Xeno economics completed.

Turn 61: militarization.

Turn 66: militarization completed.

Turn 66: research specialization.

Turn 74: research specialization completed.

Turn 74: interstellar travel.

Turn 81: interstellar travel completed.

Turn 81: agricultural adaptation.

Turn 92: agricultural adaptation completed.

Turn 92: interstellar banking.

Turn 105: interstellar banking completed. (unable to research economic focus due to age barrier.)

Turn 105: defense systems.

Turn 108: defense systems completed.

 

-I have hit a ceiling at interstellar banking. I will likely hit more at other various points of the governance branch, if all techs were working maybe other branches too. And likely the age of war will be even more squeezed for me. Not to say this will always happen, as it's intriguing to think if I didn't hit the tech barrier, would it have a purpose for the player? Even if it helps the AI it could easily be invisible to the player and allow free research once again.

 

 

-I hit some problems between turns 29 and & 46. Research was going slow due to outdated improvements so I upgraded...

When upgrading a few low level improvements on a low production world the current system works good. (it being to build factory Lv2 you have to build factory Lv1 first.)

In the mid late game as production rises and improvements bonuses get high things start to suck and slow down real fast. Simple example:

A class ten world with 5 new xeno factories being built. Enough production exist to make a Xeno factory in one turn, the problem is you have to make a basic factory first thus doubling your build cue to 10 turns to complete. The more production the more this will hurt you and actually slow you down. A planet doing the same thing with low production will benefit when a low level factory has to be built first because there is still production being modified by the factory while its upgrading thus saving turns. A factory is still a factory. :)

I for one think this could be easier by buying the first factory on a new world like in galciv2, or when smart people would build Xeno and advanced factories instead of building the mega factories to start out. I think the system should be changed.

 

-Tech creep sucks, I researched "research specialization" (+10% global research) at turn 66 and it made interstellar banking 22 turns to complete instead of the previous 20! Which is why I put it off for so long because throughout the game it seemed planted at twenty turns no matter if my research increased. :/

 

-Oh and production lines are still visible through the fow making finding enemy shipyards easy, which is how I kept finding the iridium's shipyards. :3

 

Well I think that's it for now, its not as scientific as other posts but I hope its clear. :)

 

DARCA. ;)

26,233 views 14 replies
Reply #1 Top

A class ten world with 5 new xeno factories being built. Enough production exist to make a Xeno factory in one turn, the problem is you have to make a basic factory first thus doubling your build cue to 10 turns to complete. The more production the more this will hurt you and actually slow you down. A planet doing the same thing with low production will benefit when a low level factory has to be built first because there is still production being modified by the factory while its upgrading thus saving turns. A factory is still a factory. 

I for one think this could be easier by buying the first factory on a new world like in galciv2, or when smart people would build Xeno and advanced factories instead of building the mega factories to start out. I think the system should be changed.

I am rather ambivalent about this.

The build-upgrade-upgrade-etc cycle annoys the hell out of me because: (1) it takes many turns to fully bring a planet up to spec; (2) and during those turns you have visit and alter the production distribution to optimize the production (thus minimize waste).

If implemented it will shave of a lot of turns of relative inactivity for the planet going to the cycle. And this brings me to the other side: With your super production planets even faster back in the game of generating research and ships, the AI will stand even less of a change than now - unless the AI will be able to use this to good effect himself.

If the AI can handle it, then i would gladly see the ability for the player to build/buy high-end-improvements instead of the upgrade cycle come into fruition.

I am all for faster games, but not if it will cripple the game.

Maybe it can be an option "Enable/Disable forced iterative improvement building".

 
Reply #2 Top

Well again the fact that population = production probably comes into play here. A low population planet will take a LONG time to build an Industrial Sector. Perhaps longer than if it progressed through the various tiers of factories that start giving manufacturing bonuses. Perhaps I'll do a test of that. Anyway, if true that means the GC2 method of automatically having you build the higher tier version wouldn't work so well for low pop planets. Having the option to just go straight for the higher tier factory is possible, but I wonder if it would muddy the UI.

Reply #3 Top

Quoting eviator, reply 2

Well again the fact that population = production probably comes into play here. A low population planet will take a LONG time to build an Industrial Sector. Perhaps longer than if it progressed through the various tiers of factories that start giving manufacturing bonuses. Perhaps I'll do a test of that. Anyway, if true that means the GC2 method of automatically having you build the higher tier version wouldn't work so well for low pop planets. Having the option to just go straight for the higher tier factory is possible, but I wonder if it would muddy the UI.

About the positive effect of the build-upgrade cycle for low population planets, Paul did state as much in a developer feed. And it is an advantage for low production planets. Or any planet where the high-end-improvement would take more than x turns (where x is the number of upgrades you need to get from the basic building to the highest form of said improvement). On high production planets it is definitely a disadvantage.

Reply #4 Top

Exactly!

I'm going to mod a few things and test them and give you guys and gals a update on what the results are in a dew hours. :)

Reply #5 Top

I did a test starting in Age of Ascension colonizing a new planet with 2.5 billion pop. Going from a Basic Factory to Industrial Sector took 41 turns. Then I reloaded that save and just added the production numbers without building anything, like it would be if you went straight for an industrial sector. At 393 cost for an Industrial sector, that took 45 turns. So it's actually much less of a difference than I thought.

I wonder how building 3 at a time, so there is adjacency bonus, would affect the spread. I'm not sure how to test that. Another issue that may come about with going straight for Industrial Sectors on a low population planet is getting population pressure, affecting the production approval bonus. I did not encounter that in my attempt (approval stayed at 100% for all 45 turns). It's not as much of a problem in the upgrade scenario since you can easily build farms or approval buildings in between upgrades.

Reply #6 Top

Farms win all the time. First things first. Build two farms or at least one, THEN your factories. 

Reply #7 Top

That's silly. Farms are useless before hitting population cap or <100% approval. If your farm is complete the same turn you hit one of those thresholds, that is optimal.

Reply #8 Top

Did some quick research (for the manufacturing buildings) :

Not taking in account population growth. Using production points actually spend on building the improvement (so after happiness, planet bonuses, etc):

On planets with a production of 1-35 the build-upgrade cycle has the advantage. Breakeven point at a production of 36.

Production of 37-77 about equal with occasional slight advantage (delta: 1 turn difference) for the build-upgrade cycle.

Production of 77-98 about equal with most of the time a slight advantage for the direct-build option.

With a production of more than 98 the direct-build is always faster.

From production 131 on, you gain 2 or more turns. At a production of 393 or more the difference becomes constant: build-upgrade cycle 5 turns and the direct-build option just 1 turn.

 

Reply #9 Top

I may be missing something, but is there any reason to limit building to one per turn? otherwise I would say just allow to build as many building as you can in a trun and build-upgrade becomes just as fast as direct build in high production case while still allowing faster startup on low production world.

Reply #10 Top

Quoting Stilgar84, reply 9

I may be missing something, but is there any reason to limit building to one per turn? otherwise I would say just allow to build as many building as you can in a trun and build-upgrade becomes just as fast as direct build in high production case while still allowing faster startup on low production world.

I wonder if Approval with respect to planetary wealth is the reason. Building one building per turn would limit how much maintenance can jump in one turn, thus affecting how much planetary wealth approval is decreased. Just a guess.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting Stilgar84, reply 9

I may be missing something, but is there any reason to limit building to one per turn? otherwise I would say just allow to build as many building as you can in a trun and build-upgrade becomes just as fast as direct build in high production case while still allowing faster startup on low production world.

Same reason as only 1 tech research per turn (barring events), 1 ship build per shipyard per turn: Game Design decision. Paul has said in a developer feed they may look at it in the future, but for now this is how it is. You can bug Paul about it on Friday during the next developer feed.

Also the auto-upgrade queuing is only perform during "Next Turn" phase and only on completed improvements, and not on improvements in the manufacturing queue.

Reply #12 Top

Eviator that's not the point of this, its common sense to not start off building something that takes 40+ turns! Even for a test. But I have found that:

 

1. With 2 mid Lv factories in place and trying to build a third it is twice as fast as the current system since the cost seems to be about one turn to complete.

2. With 2-5 or more improvements to be made eventually a backup ensures where improvements could be made faster than is allowed.

3. The benefits from a new low production ( or any type of world) world is diminished over time as production increases over time and improvements are completed.

4. It is best to build a basic factory (or some people would say a farm or hospital. :p ) and then whatever Lv of improvements AFTER the basic factory because its faster to build and the bonus is pretty damn good get started. After that happens points 1-3 occur, making the current system a bit broken though.

I am still unsure if this is all for the AI again, if so the player has been losing alot in the way of choice recently for it.

 

DARCA. ;)

Reply #13 Top

Its easy to get 100 production in the early game. Easy.

It WOULD be best to allow multiple improvements a turn like they said shipyards could do, but it wouldn't solve the upgrade problem sadly.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting DARCA1213, reply 12

Eviator that's not the point of this, its common sense to not start off building something that takes 40+ turns!

No I get it, it's a bad idea for the game to force you to go directly to industrial sectors. I'm just saying that perhaps the reason they don't even have the option is that it could muddy the interface(?) Or maybe they just haven't gotten to it yet.