The main issue about Elemental: Expectations

from Elemental Forums

After reading several threads in this forum for some time I have come to the conclusion that the main problem with Elemental is one of unfulfilled expectations and/ or expectations management. Think about many successful games in the recent (and not so recent) history like for example Galciv 2. What do we have there? A very good (but not perfect) game that was not expected to be a blockbuster and that pleasantly surprised everybody due to its great quality and entertainment vaue.

With Elemental we have a different case. A very good game, with lots of resources and effort involved, and a pretty good result, that does not live to expectations. And perhaps it's because expectations were too high. I bet that when Elemental was announced as the spiritual successor of MoM that raised a level of expectations impossible to fulfill. And because the original level of expectations was too high many people (me included) feel cheated when the scope of the game is reduced. Is not that Elemental is bad, but we were expecting it to be a lot more and a lot better, in part because that's what we were told and in part because after Galciv 2 we were expecting a similar hit. 

PS: That of course is just my opinion, which could be right or not. 

14,105 views 5 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

The biggest question in my mind is why they can't "port" the diplomatic system from GC2 to FE/LH.

Both games are made by SD, so what makes the mechanics in LH so different from GC2, that the diplomacy can't be replicated?

 

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

In this thread: lots and lots of speculation.

High expectations and poor performance were probably why E:wom was so totally gutted by players and reviewers. SD took a beating the likes of which are usually reserved for fails coming from EA or Paradox.

Personally, when I think back, I think it was a mistake to ever label E:wom as a spiritual successor to MoM. When you say something like that, people go "ok, it won't be exactly the same but the big pieces will be there and it'll remind me of it". And it just didn't do that - everything was different (setting, fighting, strategy, magic). So on the one hand we had SD that wanted to serve the 4x fantasy market, and they wanted to compete with the classics. And on the other hand, we had the classics, and people's rosy, selective memories of them. Even if E:wom hadn't been a fail, SD were still setting themselves up to let people down because it was an impossible task.

 

Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

There's a reason Stardock didn't make GalCiv3 (even though I think that may be inevitable).  There is no way that game will ever live up to the hype that's going to surround it.

Instead they threw their resources into a ridiculously ambitious RPG/TBS hybrid.

People make their own expectations.  Often those expectations are based on misunderstandings and wishful thinking.  I don't think Stardock pushed WoM as a direct MoM sequel.  They drew inspiration from it, certainly, but they were clearly making their own game with its own lore and its own sensibilities.  What sunk that game was absolutely horrible execution.  IMHO, a lack of an overriding focus resulted in a kitchen-sink approach to game design which led inevitably to an unstable and bug-filled game that was a muddle if you could keep it running long enough to play a full game.

I'm pretty sure no one expected that.

If expectations are the main issue for Elemental, then that suggests that LH is a pretty awesome game.  (And I think it is a pretty awesome game)

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Borg999, reply 1

The biggest question in my mind is why they can't "port" the diplomatic system from GC2 to FE/LH.

Both games are made by SD, so what makes the mechanics in LH so different from GC2, that the diplomacy can't be replicated?

 

 

Exactly what I've been pointing out for months to a resounding amount of silence by Stardock. Though we need to make allowances for a number of differences, the general idea is sound. And it's may just be a case of putting Brad to doing something else, which they feel will please the horde of younger players who think, "Fuck diplomacy! Give me more weapons! Give me more spells!"

 

I hope Stardock gets to diplomacy one of these months or years. Considering that they made one of the best diplomacy AI rules set in the business ro Gal Civ II, it's ironic we have what we have in FE and LH.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

The only thing that was wrong with E:WoM was that it was underfleshed and undertested. It seems almost exactly like LH, execpt without the pacing, the fullness of content, and the polish. People called it a disaster, but I don't think it was an abomination, it's just what happens to a game that is undercooked. 

If someone expects Gal Civ 2 with swords and magic, they will get that with a heaping helping of love and care all over. If someone expects a knock their socks off rpg/tbs hybrid, they will probably find rpg parts are underdeveloped, but otherwise it is a terrific game.

I was amazed going through this beta at how afraid of heroes they were in development, like they were afraid they would take over the game. I think the game is so good everywhere they were afraid they would break it if they gave heroes enough to satisfy rpg fans. I think this timidity only cost them a shot of a huge cross-over game that reels in a lot of rpg fans who are seeking something new and different. The game is good and will be a hit with strategy fans I think, but if they let loose with the rpg aspects they could have cracked the rpg market, which is in the millions on Steam. And the thing is, it would be at least as good of a strategy game for it in my opinion. Strong heroes wouldn't break it, or at least they should have tested the idea by spending the beta on the other side of the fence testing how far you can go with them, instead of what is the least you can give them to be satisfying. Every patch gave a little more, it was like being conservative with the element that could set sales on fire, it was painful to be an rpg and strategy player who could see how much that element meant, but not really being able to make any headway in arguments about it.