Betrayers - not worth 2 points anymore?

Just thinking about Betrayers faction trait.  Presumably it gives you a larger pool of champions to draw from when you are due for one, but it really doesn't help you get *more* champions now (like it does in FE).

I know you still get Broken Loyalties.

But i'm thinking it's probably only worth a cost of 1 point rather than 2 in LH, when creating a new faction.

Thoughts?

11,386 views 12 replies
Reply #1 Top


Agreed. IMO the character and faction traits need reworking, and a few new choices wouldn't be a bad thing, either.

Reply #2 Top


Relatedly, I am running the stock Kraxis, and which can get both types of heroes, yet I seem to only get Empire offered to me.  I may be wrong, and after only three heroes being offered in one game, could be statistical anomoly, but it should be checked into.

Reply #4 Top

I was thinking the same thing today.

 

I'm at my 4th hero and I've still only been offered Kingdom heroes with my custom character.  If I'm getting a hero every time I get fame anyway, what do I care which faction they are from?  It's not as if I'm playing kingdom and just banking on getting a character that has death magic...

Reply #5 Top

Not sure if this was reviewed for LH, a couple are missing and one as mentioned is pointless

Reply #6 Top

Betrayers should perform a different function. I propose this:

 

Broken Loyalties is almost good enough by itself. Make it free and limit the total number of stolen units you may have at a time. The unit would be tagged and a hard cap would be applied to the number of units tagged you may own. Maybe Kraxis (and every faction for that matter) can have its own perk tree. Kraxis perk tree would raise the cap, +1 armies, +2 armies, +4 armies.

 

 The faction perk tree would be tied to the faction ability (Adventurer, Betrayers, etc.)

 

Giving each faction a special perk tree for the sovereign only would also add a nice moddable feature which we would all enjoy using.

 

Reply #7 Top

Another possibility for Betrayers, instead of offering two heroes, offer four, two Kingdom and two Empire heroes. And, or let the player pick two, one of each faction.

Reply #8 Top

The faction perk tree would be tied to the faction ability (Adventurer, Betrayers, etc.)

 

Giving each faction a special perk tree for the sovereign only would also add a nice moddable feature which we would all enjoy using.

 

Doesn't need to be a "tree" neccessarily, but one or two special abilties that are only available if you have a certain faction trait would be neat.  For example the Warrior Caste faction trait might add a unique attack type to the the Warrior path tree.

That'd be cool.

 

Reply #9 Top

I'm going to try and play a nation with Betrayers some time to see.  I have never been able to use Broken Loyalties, but now it cost gold, so I might be able to give it a try.  Has anyone used it since LH?  I'm not entirely sure what happens.  I know you gain the city, but what happens to the troops stationed there?  I imagine they get moved out of the city.  So, gain the city, hope you have the movement left to move an army in it, and then prepare for that army to retake the city?  And do you get the choice of empire and kingdom heroes with this?  Even so, if all these abilities worked as expected, it doesn't seem to be worth 2 points any more.  In the old system, you would gain access to twice as many heroes, but that's not the case any more.

I

Reply #10 Top

Broken Loyalties costs 1000 gold to cast now instead of 500 influence, which IMO makes it much better, because I've never had 500 influence in a game before, but I can get gold.  I'm currently playing a game with it, but I'm still early-game, so I don't know how it's going to work out.  I've tailored my faction and sovereign to generate money.  Right now I'm still building the foundation, but when the time comes, I should be able to generate a lot of money and just start buying up cities.

Reply #11 Top

I never have 1000 gold during an invasion when I need to steal an enemy. Make the ability free and place a hard cap on how many units may be owned with it.

 

When you steal an army with it, flag the army and hard cap the number of flagged units can be owned.

Reply #12 Top

I think something might be broken in the Broken Loyalties code.

 

I had a game where I literally just met the Kraxis during the AI turn, they declared war on me and used the spell to take my capital away from me (also my only city due to the vast wasteland of desert/swamp around me) - all on their turn.

 

There were no units or anything around my city.  I'm reasonably sure that my scout found them, rather than they found my city.  so this begs the question of 'do they actually know where my city was', or did they get a map cheat somehow?