Encumbrance and Initiative, Dodge, Movement...

from Elemental Forums

A potential change for LH (and backported to FE?):

I like that initiative is penalized by medium and high encumbrance. However, -2 and -4 initiative mean very different things when a unit's total initiative can vary from the teens to 30+!

I'd actually love to see a sliding scale:

0% encumbrance -> 100% initiative

100% encumbrance -> 50% initiative

... with all integers in between. Actually, the last number may need to be tweaked for balance, but you get the idea.

In fact, I'd love to see encumbrance affect dodge and maybe even movement in the same way! This makes strength and mounts important for armored knights, and encourages other kinds of units to travel light. 

Of course, this adds more importance to mounts, and I saw the other thread concerning the over-prevalence of mounts... it may also require some re-balancing of armors/heavy weapons.

15,233 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

It would make sense, but it would make anything heavier than leather useless outside of Capitar/Yithril and units in plate useless in general. Gilden and Yithril would be hit very hard in particular because because of their heavy unique weapons. Regular troops are already very disadvantaged vs magic; slowing them down would make it a slaughter whenever you fight a unit with offensive magic.

Lightly armored spearmen would be even better at crushing heavy infantry than they are now. 

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

I like the idea, but it would require an overhaul of the balance.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

I don't think it's a good idea- because it would require an overhaul of balance.

I think it's fine the way it is. Even 1 initiative can make a big difference, once spells like haste and slow start getting thrown around. 

Perhaps if mounted units had a (non-ranged) dodge cap, that would be up your alley? 

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top


Why would it require overhaul in balance? To me it seems logical. You are 100% encumbranced (I am not sure if it's said like that ;-) ) then your initiative is 50%, no matter which was its original value. Seems a lot more logical to me.

In fact the current system is a lot more unfair, because if you have higher initiative encumbrance is a lot less of a problem for you. You can just wear a lot of heavy items and almost not notice it.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting OliverFA_306, reply 4
Why would it require overhaul in balance? To me it seems logical.

Logical and balance is 2 completely different items,
like how real life works and what makes sense in game mechanics is 2 completely different items.

It would require rebalancing because initiative is not the only penalty from wearing armour, there is also a tremendous price, and usually having the highest initiative and high move will grant many free hits from kiting.

This would change many factors, but also just make archers better on average since units who can survive it (Armoured units) will move at the speed of slow across the battlefield, suddenly having less initiative than the archers.

As I said, I do like the idea because its less gamey, but I don't like the balance implications I see.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top


I see your point. Logical and balaced are not always the same. Thanks for your answes :)

However it does not seem very balanced that with -4 penalty, a 20 initiative unit gets a 20% penalty but a 30 initiative unit only gets a 13.33% penalty. Without encumbrance, the number of movements taken is 2 to 3, and with 100% encumbrance is 2 to 3.25.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Where are these 30 initiative units? Only monsters have 30 initiative, and they can't wear equipment. 

Only way to get 30 initiative is to add up wargs, haste, tactician bonuses, and the Quick trait (or sword/dagger bonuses) Right? Getting to 30 initiative takes some time, effort, and resources.  Units with high encumbrance can pile these on, too. 

So what I am saying, is, with strategic planning the system isn't too punishing to encumbered units. Those high initiative units won't be much trouble after a hit from a maul, anyway, will they?

I don't mean to be a jerk, I am just not convinced that the current system is so bad.